# Do you think Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 12, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572 "2019-08-12T19:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/101 "2019-08-15T14:44:02Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > My 25 year old son is a corrections officer in a large southern prison and he _loves_ his job. Nothing against your son, but nothing in your post talks about whether your son’s employer is able to maintain effective and humane control over its population. I’m glad he finds his work hilarious, but that’s not really the point here. Alabama, for example, expects its prison population to decline to “only” 150 percent of capacity over the next couple of years; [in Mississippi](https://www.propublica.org/article/investigating-mississippi-prisons-heres-why-im-doing-it-again), the state’s correctional commissioner was forced to resign in 2014 after being charged in a 49-count federal corruption indictment (he’s doing prison time himself now), but the staffing levels are barely half what they were then, and some facilities [have basically ceded control to the gangs](https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2019/07/15/gangs-prisons-dangerous-mississippi-privately-run-mtc/1709589001/). In Louisiana, just this month five now-former guards at Angola [were indicted for involvement](https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/courts/article_10eec94e-b87c-11e9-aea6-9b57b87f96da.html)in a major drug-smuggling operation; 40 prison employees just at that one facility have been arrested in the past year. Florida [has cut prison mental health and substance abuse services drastically](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/11/florida-prisons-face-a-bleak-sentence-636583). Georgia’s prisons [face a suicide crisis](https://www.macon.com/news/local/article232833697.html). ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/102 "2019-08-15T14:50:06Z")
There is some sensational reporting around the fact that Epstein has a break in his hyoid bone. The [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/autopsy-finds-broken-bones-in-jeffrey-epsteins-neck-deepening-questions-around-his-death/2019/08/14/d09ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html) has a good neutral piece that says: > [@](#): > > Among the bones broken in Epstein’s neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said. Other outlets picked up the last sentence that the hyoid breaks are more common in homicide victims as suggesting he was murdered. I don’t buy it. The full article makes it clear that there is nothing particularly unusual about an old guy breaking his hyoid while hanging himself. This is still the simplest answer. All the people suggesting that it’s really easy to just bribe the poorly paid guards into murdering a guy seem to suggest that every poor prison guard will just kill someone for $100 and a pack of smokes. What if the prison guard is financially stable and looking forward to his pension in a few months? How many other guards could prevent the death and must be brought into the conspiracy for it to succeed? How do you even figure out who the guard you have to bribe is? How many guards do you have to approach before someone says yes? What if anyone who says no goes straight to the FBI and reports your scheme? Bribing a guard to kill a person is not like bribing a guard to bring in a cell phone charger. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/103 "2019-08-15T14:57:44Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > I’m glad he finds his work hilarious, but that’s not really the point here. Perhaps like his father, the Gleesome Prison Turnkey son is stoned on illegal drugs all day? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/104 "2019-08-15T15:13:21Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Suicide. > This is upsetting. We Dopers are smarted than the average bear. Why are a third of us entertaining conspiracy theories? This bodes ill for when the Russians start their already-planned preelection viral fake news. “Smartest and hippest,” indeed. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/105 "2019-08-15T15:16:10Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > My first question would be, why was he put in a notoriously understaffed and incompetently run jail? He wasn’t just some run of the mill pervert. He was a pervert who may very well have had very serious, life destroying information about some of the most powerful people in the world. He was, by a mile, America’s most high profile prisoner. So why put him in a notorious shit hole prison run by idiots? Is MCC New York particularly ill-regarded? It’s certainly no stranger to high profile prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/106 "2019-08-15T16:39:51Z")
Were you surprised by Epstein’s suicide? Imagine how surprised he was! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/107 "2019-08-15T17:22:18Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > This is upsetting. We Dopers are smarted than the average bear. Why are a third of us entertaining conspiracy theories? This bodes ill for when the Russians start their already-planned preelection viral fake news. You don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. Personally, I feel that Epstein committed suicide with no outside assistance. But if Trump and other right wingers are going to push for a conspiracy, we can’t allow them to go unchallenged. We have to fight back and point out that if Epstein was killed by a conspiracy, then Trump is a much likelier suspect than the Clintons. If he’s stoking a fire, we need to hold his feet to the flames. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/108 "2019-08-15T17:26:20Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Is MCC New York particularly ill-regarded? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/109 "2019-08-15T19:04:27Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > There is some sensational reporting around the fact that Epstein has a break in his hyoid bone. The [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/autopsy-finds-broken-bones-in-jeffrey-epsteins-neck-deepening-questions-around-his-death/2019/08/14/d09ac934-bdd9-11e9-b873-63ace636af08_story.html) has a good neutral piece that says: > > Other outlets picked up the last sentence that the hyoid breaks are more common in homicide victims as suggesting he was murdered. I don’t buy it. The full article makes it clear that there is nothing particularly unusual about an old guy breaking his hyoid while hanging himself. This is still the simplest answer. > > All the people suggesting that it’s really easy to just bribe the poorly paid guards into murdering a guy seem to suggest that every poor prison guard will just kill someone for $100 and a pack of smokes. What if the prison guard is financially stable and looking forward to his pension in a few months? How many other guards could prevent the death and must be brought into the conspiracy for it to succeed? How do you even figure out who the guard you have to bribe is? How many guards do you have to approach before someone says yes? What if anyone who says no goes straight to the FBI and reports your scheme? Bribing a guard to kill a person is not like bribing a guard to bring in a cell phone charger. The notion that you need to bribe any guards is a red herring, so far as I’m concerned. Bribing is not required. Who ordered that Epstein be taken off suicide watch? Did anyone higher up influence the decision? There are procedures to be followed before this decision is made. Were they followed? Which medical personnel signed off on this decision? Any? Who made the decision that Epstein no longer have a cellmate? Why was the decision made to depart from this protocol? Who made the decision to assign inexperienced prison personnel to safeguard Epstein’s custody? Was it generally known that these individuals might occasionally slip out for an unauthorized nap? Even though Epstein’s body has been released, I believe the cause of death is at present noted as “undetermined.” If it was a clear case of suicide, the medical examiner would have said so. S/he hasn’t. Why was Bill Barr so eager to characterize the death as a suicide, even before the autopsy results were in? These are legitimate questions surrounding this death. They are based on known facts. They require investigation and explanation. There is at present no proof of a conspiracy. But there is certainly reason to suspect there may have been one, and to investigate further. When a man poses such a threat of substantial reputational harm to so many others in power, it does not require extraordinary imagination to consider if foul play played a role in his death – even if he died by his own hand. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/110 "2019-08-16T20:27:07Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I am willing to accept that conclusion from a reasonably well conducted investigation. That there’s going to be people out there who will refuse to trust ANYTHING official, I can’t help that. > > (Which does not preclude a situation of his keepers having decided “I’m not going to put much effort into keeping this waste of skin alive”. ) That’s about how I see it. I’m not a CT myself but I wouldn’t be terribly surprised to learn that a pissed-off guard or fellow prisoner did him in. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/111 "2019-08-16T21:02:17Z")
I believe he was murdered but I don t know who did it. He had information and some really dirty secrets on lots, maybe thousands of people who have tons of money and influence and I think it could have been many people pulling the noose. Do I think the Clintons did it? No. They are to obvious a suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/112 "2019-08-19T02:39:47Z")
Epsteins guard finally revealed: [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ac/a8/a4/aca8a4057942e0d57525e26bdc74757f.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ac/a8/a4/aca8a4057942e0d57525e26bdc74757f.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/113 "2019-08-22T01:33:53Z")
I live in N.Y.C. and articles about that prison are legion in the local legitimate press. They’ll find his suicide note about a month after they find Hoffa’s remains at the home field end of Giant’s Stadium. Please. He was murdered because he knew way too much. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572/114 "2023-06-27T16:26:56Z")
> no evidence to contradict the “absence of criminality” in his death. [https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/27/politics/epstein-suicide-doj-inspector-general-report/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/27/politics/epstein-suicide-doj-inspector-general-report/index.html) The full report: > **[23-085.pdf](https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/23-085.pdf)** > > 5.70 MB [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-jeffrey-epstein-committed-suicide/838572.md?page=5)