# Do you think linking UFOs with the paranormal is healthy for either discussion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976 "2013-06-14T08:16:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/1 "2013-06-14T08:16:39Z")
Whether you believe in UFOs or in paranormal phenomena, do you think linking these two subjects is a good thing? Why or why not? It seems to me that they are very separate indeed and that linking the two discredits them both. Thoughts, comments, opinions appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/2 "2013-06-14T08:33:09Z")
They’re separate in some ways, but they’re alike in that they’re both bullshit. Linking the two discredits them both? Good. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/3 "2013-06-14T08:41:35Z")
Both are irrational beliefs, neither can discredit the other because they are _already_ discredited. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/4 "2013-06-14T10:10:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Both are irrational beliefs, neither can discredit the other because they are _already_ discredited. UFO’s arent discredited; they cant be discredited unless you can prove that this is the only life in the universe. Then there is the fact that a UFO might be an unidentified earth-based aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/5 "2013-06-14T10:39:54Z")
On the subject of UFOs, I refer you to the wise words of Richard Feynman: > [@](#): > > Some years ago I had a conversation with a layman about flying saucers — because I am scientific I know all about flying saucers! I said "I don’t think there are flying saucers’. So my antagonist said, “Is it impossible that there are flying saucers? Can you prove that it’s impossible?” “No”, I said, “I can’t prove it’s impossible. It’s just very unlikely”. At that he said, “You are very unscientific. If you can’t prove it impossible then how can you say that it’s unlikely?” But that is the way that is scientific. It is scientific only to say what is more likely and what less likely, and not to be proving all the time the possible and impossible. To define what I mean, I might have said to him, “Listen, I mean that from my knowledge of the world that I see around me, I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the results of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence than of the unknown rational efforts of extra-terrestrial intelligence.” It is just more likely. That is all. > _Richard Feynman in The Character of Physical Law (1964)_ > [@](#): > > Anyway, I have to argue about flying saucers on the beach with people, you know. And I was interested in this: they keep arguing that it is possible. And that’s true. It is possible. They do not appreciate that the problem is not to demonstrate whether it’s possible or not but whether it’s going on or not. > _Richard Feynman in The Meaning of It All : Thoughts of a Citizen Scientist (1998)_ And in fact the exact same points can be made about other paranormal activity. You could easily replace the words “flying saucers” with “ghosts” or “fairies” or “angels” or “psychic powers” in the above quotes and they would largely remain true. So while proof or disproof of one strange thing does not necessarily apply to all other strange things, the same process applies and in general the same conclusions are reached. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/6 "2013-06-14T12:32:03Z")
Who the hell is linking UFOs to paranormal shit? Is there some new TLC or History channel show where these two bullshitter teams get together to find paranormal UFOs now? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/7 "2013-06-14T12:35:18Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Who the hell is linking UFOs to paranormal shit? Is there some new TLC or History channel show where these two bullshitter teams get together to find paranormal UFOs now? It’s been going on since UFOs became a popular concept. I’ve seen stories about UFOs being linked to Bigfoot sightings, hauntings, things like Mothman and the Mad Gasser, and a lot of other things that fall under “paranormal”. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/8 "2013-06-14T12:37:47Z")
No, it isn’t helpful; moreover it is if anything detrimental. The plausibility of extra-terrestrial intelligence is increasing all the time as we discover more and more exo-planets and the like. However, the likelihood of the “paranormal” as most lay people understand it has decreased with the same amount of speed. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/9 "2013-06-14T13:08:10Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Who the hell is linking UFOs to paranormal shit? Is there some new TLC or History channel show where these two bullshitter teams get together to find paranormal UFOs now? John Keel, Brad Steiger, Whitley Strieber, Jacques Vallee, and near the end of his life, former nuts&bolts advocate J. Allen Hynek. To the OP, yeah, I think whatever the UFO/“Alien” mystery is, it is closer to the psychological, parapsych & paranormal, & spiritual realms than to the material one. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/10 "2013-06-14T13:54:04Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > They’re separate in some ways, but they’re alike in that they’re both bullshit. Linking the two discredits them both? Good. Do you realize the number of credible witnesses who have encountered UFOs? I am talking about military officers, pilots, police officers, and the like. I have never contested that these things are alien spacecraft nor have these witnesses, but unless you’ve read seriously on the subject you can’t say UFOs are bullshit. You are kind of making my point though. Don’t these military officers deserve to be treated with more respect than the corner palm reader? ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/11 "2013-06-14T13:56:22Z")
UFOs are often linked with ghosts etc. in “unexplained mysteries” type shows and books. I used to love watching a show called “Strange But True?” when I was a kid and it had plenty of both. I bet it was really cheap. > [@nashiitashii](#): > > No, it isn’t helpful; moreover it is if anything detrimental. The plausibility of extra-terrestrial intelligence is increasing all the time as we discover more and more exo-planets and the like. However, the likelihood of the “paranormal” as most lay people understand it has decreased with the same amount of speed. The plausibility of extraterrestrial intelligence may be high, but the plausibility of extraterrestrial intelligence visiting us is low, and going down all the time. It’s going down every minute we don’t detect it either visiting us or out in space. We’ve got to look a long way to search for intelligent life elsewhere in the universe and have found nothing, not even with radio telescopes. That doesn’t mean it’s not there, but the chances of it being close enough to routinely visit us without us detecting it seem slim. Unless they’ve somehow got faster than light travel (I have no real idea on the plausibility of this but I suspect it’s low), they’ve still got at least a nine year round trip from Alpha Centauri, even if they don’t care about time dilation. And the chances of there being any intelligent life in Alpha Centauri are tiny unless intelligent life is very common throughout the universe. If this is the case, that brings us back to the question of why we have detected none? Even if some have moved past a need to use electromagnetic radiation that we can detect, a few of the millions of advanced civilizations we’d have to postulate to consider the idea of intelligent life visiting us from Alpha Centauri must be emitting something, at least. > [@Gyrate](#): > > On the subject of UFOs, I refer you to the wise words of Richard Feynman:And in fact the exact same points can be made about other paranormal activity. You could easily replace the words “flying saucers” with “ghosts” or “fairies” or “angels” or “psychic powers” in the above quotes and they would largely remain true. So while proof or disproof of one strange thing does not necessarily apply to all other strange things, the same process applies and in general the same conclusions are reached. You forgot God. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/12 "2013-06-14T14:01:00Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Do you realize the number of credible witnesses who have encountered UFOs? I am talking about military officers, pilots, police officers, and the like. > > I have never contested that these things are alien spacecraft nor have these witnesses, but unless you’ve read seriously on the subject you can’t say UFOs are bullshit. You are kind of making my point though. Don’t these military officers deserve to be treated with more respect than the corner palm reader? Can we not say the same for ghosts? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/13 "2013-06-14T14:04:18Z")
Linking any two nominally unrelated subjects together for purpose of discussion of either allows for arguments to swerve and veer to the point nothing can be accomplished. It’s why threadjerking is a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/14 "2013-06-14T14:07:43Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > The plausibility of extraterrestrial intelligence may be high, but the plausibility of extraterrestrial intelligence visiting us is low, and going down all the time. That doesn’t make sense to me. Even allowing for the assumption that no UFO has been a visitation of alien life, our civilization is younger than the rest of the universe by BILLIONS of years. How can anybody believe that just because we haven’t seen something yet, it’s less likely to happen? That is clearly untrue with every single scientific discovery we’ve ever made. We’re traveling further into the universe with each generation and as I pointed out, we’re the youngsters in the Universe (if intelligent life exists elsewhere). ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/15 "2013-06-14T14:09:37Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Can we not say the same for ghosts? Can we not say the same what? I don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/16 "2013-06-14T14:11:44Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > That doesn’t make sense to me. Even allowing for the assumption that no UFO has been a visitation of alien life, our civilization is younger than the rest of the universe by BILLIONS of years. How can anybody believe that just because we haven’t seen something yet, it’s less likely to happen? That is clearly untrue with every single scientific discovery we’ve ever made. We’re traveling further into the universe with each generation and as I pointed out, we’re the youngsters in the Universe (if intelligent life exists elsewhere). On what are you basing your assumption that, if life exists elsewhere, _we_ are the “youngsters”? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/17 "2013-06-14T14:13:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > On what are you basing your assumption that, if life exists elsewhere, _we_ are the “youngsters”? Playing the law of averages. If most of the universe is billions of years older than our galaxy, we’d likely be the youngsters - certainly in a scenario where we were being visited by another life form. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/18 "2013-06-14T14:18:54Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Playing the law of averages. If most of the universe is billions of years older than our galaxy, we’d likely be the youngsters - certainly in a scenario where we were being visited by another life form. Every part of the Universe is exactly the same age. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/19 "2013-06-14T14:21:53Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > We’re traveling further into the universe with each generation Actually, we’re not. It’s just the Voyager and Pioneer probes still venturing further out there, and they were a 70s era project. Worse, our newer (that is, less than 2 generations old) probes are strictly intra-solar system and won’t travel as far out. And in person, we haven’t gone past low earth orbit in 2 generations and it’s not long before there will no longer be any living humans who have ventured even as far as lunar orbit. If anything, we’re currently regressing in terms of travel into the wider universe, drawing board plans to get to Mars notwithstanding. Hopefully, that changes, but the scientific and engineering challenges scale up drastically getting past earth orbit, much less getting to another solar system, much less getting to a solar system that bears life, much less a solar system that bears intelligent life at a high enough civilization level that we’d be able to communicate. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/20 "2013-06-14T14:23:37Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Every part of the Universe is exactly the same age. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old. Our solar system formed only 4.6 billion years ago. So, unless we believe the rest of the universe simple sat there empty while our solar system wasn’t formed for 2/3 of that time, there are other solar systems, other planets, and maybe even other life forms that would have had up to a 9.1 billion year head start on us. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976.md?page=2)