# Do you think linking UFOs with the paranormal is healthy for either discussion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976 "2013-06-14T08:16:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/181 "2013-06-14T20:07:09Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > And you must consider religion and paranormal to be one in the same. I don’t. Another hard-to-understand distinction. (And not that it really matters, but it’s “one and the same.”) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/182 "2013-06-14T20:12:52Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > It’s funny that you picked that one. That magazine (and UFO Magazine) are why I asked the question in the first place. I wrote an article about UFOs and other “phenomena” etc for another magazine and a bunch of UFOers wrote that they were displeased that I included non-UFO stuff in there. Their specific examples of why they didn’t like it were UFODigest and UFO Magazine. To each his own I guess. > > Having said that, are you under the impression that I didn’t think they got lumped together a lot? 'Cause I am the one who defended the opposite earlier. > > And UFO magazines are not all written by UFO or Paranormal people. Or do you think that every writer for Sports Illustrated throws a mean fastball? So it’s not a consensus of “UFOlogists” that you contacted that led you to believe that there was a need to separate the two subjects-it was “UFOlogists” that _already_ objected to the mixing that contacted _you_. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/183 "2013-06-14T20:14:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Another hard-to-understand distinction. (And not that it really matters, but it’s “one and the same.”) If you take the definition of the word literally, yes they are both supernatural, but the blogs, radio shows, and magazines I’ve been referring to don’t talk about God and faith. And there is a group who sees religious significance in UFOs but they’re a pretty small group comparatively. I can’t say it’ll never happen, but I have never heard or read something with paranormal in the title that was about religion. It’s always ghosts, hauntings, talking to the dead etc. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/184 "2013-06-14T20:14:06Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > It’s funny that you picked that one. That magazine (and UFO Magazine) are why I asked the question in the first place. I wrote an article about UFOs and other “phenomena” etc for another magazine and a bunch of UFOers wrote that they were displeased that I included non-UFO stuff in there. Their specific examples of why they didn’t like it were UFODigest and UFO Magazine. To each his own I guess. > > Having said that, are you under the impression that I didn’t think they got lumped together a lot? 'Cause I am the one who defended the opposite earlier. > > And UFO magazines are not all written by UFO or Paranormal people. Or do you think that every writer for Sports Illustrated throws a mean fastball? Which UFO magazine would you have us look at, then? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/185 "2013-06-14T20:15:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which UFO magazine would you have us look at, then? Look at whatever one you want. Why are you asking me? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/186 "2013-06-14T20:18:25Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > If you take the definition of the word literally, yes they are both supernatural, but the blogs, radio shows, and magazines I’ve been referring to don’t talk about God and faith. No, they don’t. But if you’re not a believer in religion or ghosts or UFOs, you might see a lot of similarities in the stories and what they might mean or do for the people who experience them or believe in them. And they’re all supported by the same kind of nebulous to nonexistent anecdotal evidence. Which is why I think it’s entirely valid to link UFOs to other paranormal phenomena in discussion. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/187 "2013-06-14T20:19:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So it’s not a consensus of “UFOlogists” that you contacted that led you to believe that there was a need to separate the two subjects-it was “UFOlogists” that _already_ objected to the mixing that contacted _you_. I don’t speak for UFOlogists. I don’t have a consensus from anyone other than the people who weighed in here. I’ve read in several places that hardcore UFO dudes don’t appreciate the mixing. I got some email to that point as well. I didn’t know you weren’t supposed to mix the two, but having looked at it for a bit I began to see the point. It seems like by mixing paranormal stuff with UFO accounts, you tend to draw a lot of fire toward the UFO crowd that they might not appreciate. The opposite may be true, but I don’t know. From the people I’ve asked the primarily paranormal people are mixed - some like it, some don’t, some don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/188 "2013-06-14T20:23:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, they don’t. But if you’re not a believer in religion or ghosts or UFOs, you might see a lot of similarities in the stories and what they might mean or do for the people who experience them or believe in them. And they’re all supported by the same kind of nebulous to nonexistent anecdotal evidence. Which is why I think it’s entirely valid to link UFOs to other paranormal phenomena in discussion. Exactly. They are equally credible…or, not-credible as the case may be. A true believer is obviously going to look at them differently, but from a skeptical or scientific perspective they are pretty much the same. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/189 "2013-06-14T20:24:11Z")
BTWm **RadioActiveRich** , when you claimed that I told a falsehood because I used a certain word, I replied: > [@Czarcasm](#): > > It sure was. Note that I said “UFOlogists”, _not_ UFOlogists-which obviously indicates that I don’t think it’s to be taken seriously. You followed that be referring to them as if they had some sort of official status that should be taken seriously, which cause be to repeatedly ask what an authentic “UFOlogist” was. > Since you have yet to tell us where one gets such a degree or publishes their peer-reviewed findings, I’m still wondering. Care to reevaluate your claim that I told a falsehood? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/190 "2013-06-14T20:24:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, they don’t. But if you’re not a believer in religion or ghosts or UFOs, you might see a lot of similarities in the stories and what they might mean or do for the people who experience them or believe in them. And they’re all supported by the same kind of nebulous to nonexistent anecdotal evidence. Which is why I think it’s entirely valid to link UFOs to other paranormal phenomena in discussion. I’m definitely not getting to a religious discussion, but I will say that I consider them three very separate experiences whether you believe in them or not. If you just lump everything you don’t believe in as nonsense, then you have a little growing up to do. As an adult I accept that there is more than one perfectly valid view of the World. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/191 "2013-06-14T20:26:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > BTWm **RadioActiveRich** , when you claimed that I told a falsehood because I used a certain word, I replied:Care to reevaluate your claim that I told a falsehood? You said that a large number of “UFOlogists” lump the two together. Now you’re saying there’s no such thing as UFOlogists just because you and I might not recognize a distinction. There is a community of people who write, lecture, and research who are recognized by the UFOCommunity as UFOlogists. Your statement as applied to that group is bullshit. If you can produce a different group that you’re talking about, I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/192 "2013-06-14T20:28:19Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > You said that a large number of “UFOlogists” lump the two together. Now you’re saying there’s no such thing as UFOlogists just because you and I might not recognize a distinction. There is a community of people who write, lecture, and research who are recognized by the UFOCommunity as UFOlogists. Your statement as applied to that group is bullshit. If you can produce a different group that you’re talking about, I’m all ears. Quote me telling a falsehood. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/193 "2013-06-14T20:29:10Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > If you just lump everything you don’t believe in as nonsense I don’t. I do lump similar things together owing to the fact that they are similar, and I explained that I regard these things as similar in some important ways. I’m sensing that you don’t want to acknowledge that. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/194 "2013-06-14T20:31:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t. I do lump similar things together owing to the fact that they are similar, and I explained that I regard these things as similar in some important ways. I’m sensing that you don’t want to acknowledge that. I have no problem acknowledging that YOU feel that way. I believe I just disagreed with you. That is an acknowledgement of both of our opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/195 "2013-06-14T20:35:51Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > I have no problem acknowledging that YOU feel that way. I didn’t ask you to acknowledge how I feel. I don’t need acknowledgement. What I am saying is that linking these things together is neither unfair not invalid, and it doesn’t harm the discussion at all. I think it sheds light on it from another perspective for the reasons I gave earlier. Do you have anything to say about that other than “No?” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/196 "2013-06-14T20:35:56Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > I have no problem acknowledging that YOU feel that way. I believe I just disagreed with you. That is an acknowledgement of both of our opinions. Put it this way…ask a Christian or a Muslim which one is right and which one is woo and you will get a different answer depending on which you ask. Correct? Well, to an agnostic it’s a moot point, since both are equally woo based. This is the same thing. Ask a UFO person and a person who believes in ghosts if THEIR belief is more facts based and you are going to get a different answer. While to a skeptic or someone with a scientific bent it’s really all the same. Yeah, they are both opinions, but one is actually based on a rational view and an unbiased review of the evidence (or lack their of) and the other is more a belief, since the reality is there ISN’T any evidence that either ghosts OR UFOs of extra-terrestrial origin are anything more. See? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/197 "2013-06-14T20:36:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If it weren’t for that fact that a large portion of “Ufologists” make the link between U.F.O.s and the paranormal themselves the subject would never come up at all. If you want there to be a separation between U.F.O.s and the paranormal, you’re speaking to the wrong crowd. There is not a “large portion of UFOlogists” who link the two. Again, if you have a list, I’m all ears. I suspect you post the link to an article or magazine, but unless you think every writer for Sports Illustrated is an athlete or unless the article is about a UFOlogist who links the two, you haven’t really produced anything. So, YOU were the one who said it. Who were you talking about? Not who did you go google in order to win your little argument. Who were you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/198 "2013-06-14T20:37:37Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > For the most part I have found maybe a dozen of the UFO stories that I’ve read about to be credible enough to be shown respect. I don’t know if they’re true or not, but the witnesses believe in what they saw. And most of them don’t start out saying they think its an alien space craft. That seems to come later, probably because other people say it. You can substitute \*ghost \*for _UFO_ in the quote above and you’ll find dozens of stories that read exactly the same. That’s why their lumped together. And they and you are suffering from the same flaw - your bar for credible puts way too much emphasis on eye witnesses and human memory. It’s has been shown time and time again that both are easily manipulated (consciously and unconsciously) in regular and predictable patterns. In short, well meaning and intelligent people are fooled by their own senses and memories all the time. Without physical evidence, it’s not much more than a ghost story. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/199 "2013-06-14T20:44:53Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > There is not a “large portion of UFOlogists” who link the two. Again, if you have a list, I’m all ears. I suspect you post the link to an article or magazine, but unless you think every writer for Sports Illustrated is an athlete or unless the article is about a UFOlogist who links the two, you haven’t really produced anything. So, YOU were the one who said it. Who were you talking about? Not who did you go google in order to win your little argument. Who were you talking about? My definition of “UFOlogist” at this time is anyone who writes on the subject in a positive manner…but I gave you a chance to clarify matters when you referred to them as a professional group by allowing you to tell me what an authentic “UFOlogist” would be, and _you_ brought up degrees and peer-reviewed journals. Until you come up with good examples of both I think I’ll stick with my original definition, which means the links I have provided so far more than prove my point. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/200 "2013-06-14T20:45:46Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > There is not a “large portion of UFOlogists” who link the two. Again, if you have a list, I’m all ears. I suspect you post the link to an article or magazine, but unless you think every writer for Sports Illustrated is an athlete or unless the article is about a UFOlogist who links the two, you haven’t really produced anything. So, YOU were the one who said it. Who were you talking about? Not who did you go google in order to win your little argument. Who were you talking about? It appears that you and **Czarcasm** mean very different things by “UFOlogist”, which is why he asked you what the term meant to you. He’s speaking of a broader group than you are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976.md?page=11)