# Do you think linking UFOs with the paranormal is healthy for either discussion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976 "2013-06-14T08:16:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/221 "2013-06-14T21:24:42Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Once again, I’m the person who mentioned that the “discussion” has been linked. The argument we’re having now is whether UFO experts consider them linked. They don’t. “Expert” limited to those that already believe that they shouldn’t be linked, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/222 "2013-06-14T21:26:24Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > If an entire community accepts them, pays to hear them lecture, buys their books, and the United States Congress accepts their testimony, I’d say that’s a better qualification that calling in to a radio show and having a blog. > > Said another way - You don’t have a list. You have a generalization that is a false one. The entire community? Really? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/223 "2013-06-14T21:28:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Expert” limited to those that already believe that they shouldn’t be linked, of course. Can’t help the facts baby. And you can’t just make 'em up because you don’t like the reality. You walked into a situation where I had already done the research. Can’t help that. And as always, you don’t have to agree with me, but the facts don’t lie. Judges? Over ruled. Thank you for playing. 220 posts and over 1200 views on this thread! Not too shabby! ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/224 "2013-06-14T21:29:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The entire community? > Really? If it makes you feel any better (and even if it doesn’t) I like your name. So there is that. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/225 "2013-06-14T21:30:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The entire community? > Really? Yup! There isn’t a name on that list that your UFO Magazine, Blogs, and radio shows wouldn’t kill to have on. I know. I had to track some of 'em down. It ain’t easy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/226 "2013-06-14T21:31:05Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Can’t help the facts baby. Your facts appear to be ‘I say they’re not linked and some people in the UFO community who I believe are credible say they’re not linked, so they’re not linked.’ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/227 "2013-06-14T21:32:25Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Can’t help the facts baby. And you can’t just make 'em up because you don’t like the reality. You walked into a situation where I had already done the research. Can’t help that. And as always, you don’t have to agree with me, but the facts don’t lie. > > Judges? Over ruled. > > Thank you for playing. > > 220 posts and over 1200 views on this thread! Not too shabby! The reality is that there is no solid evidence whatsoever for the existence of UFOs. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/228 "2013-06-14T21:33:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Your facts appear to be ‘I say they’re not linked and some people in the UFO community who I believe are credible say they’re not linked, so they’re not linked.’ That’s only because you don’t know anything about the subject. Google 'em. Prove me wrong! Czar asked me for a list and I asked him. I had one and he didn’t. Themz the breaks! ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/229 "2013-06-14T21:34:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The reality is that there is no solid evidence whatsoever for the existence of UFOs. No shit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/230 "2013-06-14T21:34:59Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > No shit. So what are they experts in, again? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/231 "2013-06-14T21:35:00Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > That’s only because you don’t know anything about the subject. That’s just an appeal to [three-weeks’] authority, though. What you need to do is demonstrate why these things are not linked, not just assert that they’re not linked because somebody says so. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/232 "2013-06-14T21:37:13Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Here is the list of EVERY North American UFOlogist recognized by the organizations that make up the UFO community; … > > [selected names from list] > > Art Bell > Budd Hopkins > Donald Keyhoe > George Adamski > J. Allen Hynek > Jacques Fabrice Vallée > John Edward Mack > Philip J. Klass > Robert Sheaffer > Stanton Friedman > Whitley Strieber So you are including **Philip J. Klass** and **Robert Shaeffer,** two dudes who made a career out of _refuting_ alien-UFO claims, with **Dr. Mack,** who believes all dreams are real no matter how bizarre, and **Hopkins, Friedman** and **Strieber,** who think that children are being regularly abducted to mother ships, and who make their living out of creating UFO fantasies? Do you really know who these people are, or did you just copy a bunch of names from someone’s list? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/233 "2013-06-14T21:37:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The reality is that there is no solid evidence whatsoever for the existence of UFOs. Theres a thing called quantum physics too and another thing called string theory. There was even a man who created something called the theory of relativity. All of them theories without evidence yet there are people who study these things and there are experts. And people who call into radio shows don’t make the list there either. Almost all of science is a theory - or based on a theory. So what!? Eggs is still eggs and bacon is still bacon. Just 'cause their on the same plate doesn’t mean they’re the same thing. Hell! My favorite guy on that list is Art Bell and he has conversations about paranormal stuff and UFOs all the time - but they’re SEPARATE conversations with different guests for each topic. You know why? 'Cause he’s an expert and knows what he’s doing! Been doing it for over three decades! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/234 "2013-06-14T21:39:50Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So you are including **Philip J. Klass** and **Robert Shaeffer,** two dudes who made a career out of _refuting_ alien-UFO claims, with **Dr. Mack,** who believes all dreams are real no matter how bizarre, and **Hopkins, Friedman** and **Strieber,** who think that children are being regularly abducted to mother ships, and who make their living out of creating UFO fantasies? Do you really know who these people are, or did you just copy a bunch of names from someone’s list? Damn you for reading my mind! 😃 That’s why I kept asking where he got the list from-because it’s rather obvious he didn’t do any research on his “UFOlogists”. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/235 "2013-06-14T21:39:59Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So you are including **Philip J. Klass** and **Robert Shaeffer,** two dudes who made a career out of _refuting_ alien-UFO claims, with **Dr. Mack,** who believes all dreams are real no matter how bizarre, and **Hopkins, Friedman** and **Strieber,** who think that children are being regularly abducted to mother ships, and who make their living out of creating UFO fantasies? Do you really know who these people are, or did you just copy a bunch of names from someone’s list? Not my list. I didn’t include anybody. These are the guys people pay to see and these are the guys who brief Congress, Presidents, and foreign countries. I didn’t make the list, I just researched the list. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/236 "2013-06-14T21:40:06Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Theres a thing called quantum physics too and another thing called string theory. There was even a man who created something called the theory of relativity. All of them theories without evidence yet There’s evidence for two of those. > [@](#): > > Almost all of science is a theory - or based on a theory. So what!? Please google the word “theory.” > [@](#): > > My favorite guy on that list is Art Bell and he has conversations about paranormal stuff and UFOs all the time That’d be evidence _against_ your contention. > [@](#): > > they’re SEPARATE conversations with different guests for each topic. You know why? Because it’s easier on listeners and probably a more effective way to fill airtime, and because different people want to talk about different stuff at different times? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/237 "2013-06-14T21:40:52Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Theres a thing called quantum physics too and another thing called string theory. There was even a man who created something called the theory of relativity. All of them theories without evidence yet there are people who study these things and there are experts. And people who call into radio shows don’t make the list there either. > > Almost all of science is a theory - or based on a theory. So what!? > > Eggs is still eggs and bacon is still bacon. Just 'cause their on the same plate doesn’t mean they’re the same thing. Hell! My favorite guy on that list is Art Bell and he has conversations about paranormal stuff and UFOs all the time - but they’re SEPARATE conversations with different guests for each topic. You know why? 'Cause he’s an expert and knows what he’s doing! Been doing it for over three decades! So, are you aware of what the word “theory” means in reference to science? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/238 "2013-06-14T21:41:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Damn you for reading my mind! 😃 That’s why I kept asking where he got the list from-because it’s rather obvious he didn’t do any research on his “UFOlogists”. UFOlogists are not all believers in UFOs. There are people who study the field who have concluded by their own research that UFOs are not alien. So, your list was only believers? You really have no grasp of the subject at all do you? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/239 "2013-06-14T21:43:33Z")
And you might have pulled J. Allen Hynek off the list since he spent the first half of his career debunking UFO claims by the truckload for the government and the second half he founded the Center for UFO Studies. Literally THE institute in the field. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/240 "2013-06-14T21:46:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So, are you aware of what the word “theory” means in reference to science? Only if you include as “science” the study of all things. There’s political theory, music theory, design theory. None of these things are about science in the “science” sense of the word, but they are all studies and practices of a widely accepted discipline in their respective fields. They are considered “legit” because their peers say so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976.md?page=13)