# Do you think linking UFOs with the paranormal is healthy for either discussion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976 "2013-06-14T08:16:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/121 "2013-06-14T18:26:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > IT’s the freakin’ _military_-everything is classified. Actually, none of the records of that night are still classified. The only thing not recovered was the radar tapes. And yes, the tapes in that sequence are gone. So, no the report is not classified. Now if you’re saying the actual cause may still be, that I buy. But what was it? 'Cause it wasn’t a lighthouse. See - you aren’t likely to pick up a lighthouse on radar. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/122 "2013-06-14T18:28:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Please explain what you want to do this thing. I don’t know what this means. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/123 "2013-06-14T18:29:42Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > I don’t know what this means. I forgot the word “about” and went back to add it. > [@Marley23](#): > > What kind of scientific response? An investigation into why people see stuff and think it’s other stuff? > [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > You get that these guys use live ammo right? So, if they’re panicked over something imaginary, it’s still a thing. You get that right? Yeah, it’s a thing. What do you want to do about that thing? You’re doing the equivalent of yelling “wow, a thing- _investigate it!_” What do you want to investigate, why do you want to investigate that, and what do you expect to accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/124 "2013-06-14T18:30:49Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > And that doesn’t scare the shit outta you? Seriously? LOL! > > And again nobody was fired, reassigned, or taken off active duty. 1500 rounds at nothing! 1. Mistakes happen. 2. On what are you basing your premise that nothing happened to the personnel involved, seeing as how the military is not in the habit of releasing such information? How do you know that no disciplinary action was taken? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/125 "2013-06-14T18:34:07Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > On evening two Colonel Charles Halt took a squad out to investigate the second sighting. All of the men following the object into the forest and after relatively close contact they chased it it separated and then fled. Obviously not a lighthouse. Nope. They took a tape recorder- there was no chase, instead they watched a light in the sky with a Starscope photomultiplier, a light which was still there at 3.30 o’clock in the morning and was probably a celestial object. They were probably unfamiliar with the effects a Starscope has when you use it to look at stars. > [@](#): > > Near the end of his tape, Halt says: “03:30 and the objects are still in the sky, although the one to the south looks like it’s losing a little bit of altitude. We’re turning around and heading back toward the base.” > > Halt confirmed this in his interview with Salley Rayl: “After an hour or so, I finally made the call to go in. We left those things out there.” > > What a curiously unsatisfactory way to end a supposed close encounter – “We left those things out there.” > [@](#): > > From night one photos of the ground and geiger readings of the were taken. The radiation levels were recorded at “significantly above normal”. Nope. The readings they took were within the normal error bars for background radiation. > **[Rendlesham Forest UFO – the radiation readings](http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/rendlesham4.html)** > > Were the radiation readings at Rendlesham significant? > [@](#): > > Summary > According to the manufacturers of the instrument that was used to take radiation readings in Rendlesham Forest in December 1980, the measurements were “of little or no significance”. From the evidence of the real-time tape recording made during the investigation, it is shown that the readings are simply background levels and do not support the claim that anything unusual happened in Rendlesham Forest. Onsite checks made within a few years of the incident revealed no unusual radiation at the site. > [@](#): > > From nights one and two radar operators reported contact which they taped. Nope, no evidence of this can be found. A myth. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/126 "2013-06-14T18:34:26Z")
On the L.A. thing. It’s not like one guy yells “fire” and everybody opened up. A number of people fired at what they said was a craft that several people insist they hit, but didn’t take down. No plane in existence at that time (or now for that matter) could take a direct hit and just sit there. What were they shooting at? Truth is, you don’t know and that is direct evidence that at least one encounter was an actual craft that nobody ever identified. That doesn’t prove any other case, but it does prove that an unidentified craft sat above Los Angeles, took direct fire, and left and the American people were never told what it was. This is all fact, btw. No guesswork here and the only story the govt put out was that it was a balloon. Every single witness questioned said no way. Oh and the balloon story didn’t come out for days either. And what kind of balloon can our Army not shoot down with 1500+ rounds of anti-aircraft munitions? You seriously think aliens are the only thing we should be concerned with? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/127 "2013-06-14T18:35:43Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Nope. They took a tape recorder- there was no chase, instead they watched a light in the sky with a Starscope photomultiplier, a light which was still there at 3.30 o’clock in the morning and was probably a celestial object. They were probably unfamiliar with the effects a Starscope has when you use it to look at stars. > Nope. The readings they took were within the normal error bars for background radiation. > [Rendlesham Forest UFO – the radiation readings](http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/rendlesham4.htm) > Nope, no evidence of this can be found. A myth. So, nothing that any of these men still say today matters? That is strange to me. They’re either crazy, lying, or not. Any of those makes this a very real concern. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/128 "2013-06-14T18:37:07Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > So, nothing that any of these men still say today matters? That is strange to me. They’re either crazy, lying, or not. Any of those makes this a very real concern. Are you getting all of this from a website? 'Cause that’s reliable. I am talking about video taped, written, and recently repeated testimony. If you want a website to evidence what I’m saying, tell me what to write. I’ll have it up in ten minutes. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/129 "2013-06-14T18:37:26Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > And that doesn’t scare the shit outta you? Seriously? LOL! > > And again nobody was fired, reassigned, or taken off active duty. 1500 rounds at nothing! This happened frequently in the Phoney War in England, before the Blitz started in earnest. Reports of fighters and bombers on the first day of the war were only the first of many such errors- people get nervous in wars. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/130 "2013-06-14T18:40:40Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > And what kind of balloon can our Army not shoot down with 1500+ rounds of anti-aircraft munitions? You seriously think aliens are the only thing we should be concerned with? [del]Could you be a little more specific[/del] Could you be specific in any way about what you think we need to investigate and worry about? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/131 "2013-06-14T18:42:07Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > On the L.A. thing. It’s not like one guy yells “fire” and everybody opened up. A number of people fired at what they said was a craft that several people insist they hit, but didn’t take down. No plane in existence at that time (or now for that matter) could take a direct hit and just sit there. What were they shooting at? Truth is, you don’t know and that is direct evidence that at least one encounter was an actual craft that nobody ever identified. That doesn’t prove any other case, but it does prove that an unidentified craft sat above Los Angeles, took direct fire, and left and the American people were never told what it was. This is all fact, btw. No guesswork here and the only story the govt put out was that it was a balloon. Every single witness questioned said no way. Oh and the balloon story didn’t come out for days either. And what kind of balloon can our Army not shoot down with 1500+ rounds of anti-aircraft munitions? You seriously think aliens are the only thing we should be concerned with? You’ve got an unending supply of questions, don’t you? What about answering a couple about something that you brought up: 1. Where does one get an accredited course in Ufology? 2. What scientific peer-reviewed journal covers Ufology? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/132 "2013-06-14T18:44:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I forgot the word “about” and went back to add it. > > Yeah, it’s a thing. What do you want to do about that thing? You’re doing the equivalent of yelling “wow, a thing- _investigate it!_” What do you want to investigate, why do you want to investigate that, and what do you expect to accomplish? Actually, all I am asking for is what we’ve been doing for the past hour. Did you notice that at no time did stories of spirits, ghosts, dead people, or psychics come into play? Let’s say you convinced me or I convinced you or that neither of us moved an inch. We just had over an hour’s worth of conversation and paranormal stuff had nothing to do with it. That’s all I was talking about. For the most part, I like reading the UFO stuff and then saying “Wow! That’s really freaky!” and then I go drink coffee or something. What I don’t like is people having to trash a subject because it scares or disinterests them. Lumping stuff you don’t believe together just because you don’t believe it is bullshit. And like it or not, you probably heard something in this conversation that you’d never heard before. I only learned about the L.A. thing a week ago. I have hear every mundane military story you can imagine and nobody ever thought to tell me about the night the Army opened up on nothing in mid-air!? I feel ripped off by that, but I blame people who aren’t secure enough in their intellect to allow for that which they cannot see. If only for a moment or for entertainment, it’s a good thing to do once in a while. Of course, you don’t have to, but I thank you all for helping me make my point. Now we can agree to disagree or whatever it is we’re supposed to do now. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/133 "2013-06-14T18:45:00Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Are you getting all of this from a website? 'Cause that’s reliable. I am talking about video taped, written, and recently repeated testimony. If you want a website to evidence what I’m saying, tell me what to write. I’ll have it up in ten minutes. And you have had the chance to review all these primary sources during your three weeks of interest in UFOs. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/134 "2013-06-14T18:45:45Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > So, nothing that any of these men still say today matters? That is strange to me. They’re either crazy, lying, or not. Any of those makes this a very real concern. You should distinguish very carefully between what all the other witnesses say and what Penniston says, because he is now changing his story considerably. He now has a series of psychic messages he says he received at the time, and wrote down in notebooks that have only recently surfaced. > [@](#): > > Penniston first showed this notebook publicly on the Sci Fi channel documentary UFO Invasion at Rendlesham broadcast in 2003 December. [http://www.therendleshamforestincident.com/Penniston\_Notebook.html](http://www.therendleshamforestincident.com/Penniston_Notebook.html) None of the other witnesses support any of this, even today. Why should we believ Penniston’s increasingly paranormal story? The UFOs are being linked with paranormal phenomena by this witness himself. > [@](#): > > Just thought I would share the below segment I found on YouTube. > In the segment Penniston claims there are 16 pages of binary > codes. This is important because his story has changed with time. > When Penniston released the 6 pages of code we were led to > believe this was the entirety of the codes. Then Penniston > revealed he had 12 pages of codes. In the Joiner Report link I > provided a link to in a previous report, Penniston admitted he > had 14 pages. In this segment below he now says he has 16 pages. > People, this is a warning sign. I will ask the obvious question. > Has Penniston added more code to the notebooks over the years. If > not, why hasn’t he been honest with the number of pages? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/135 "2013-06-14T18:46:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You’ve got an unending supply of questions, don’t you? What about answering a couple about something that you brought up: > > 1. Where does one get an accredited course in Ufology? > 2. What scientific peer-reviewed journal covers Ufology? I’ve been answering questions all morning. How about you tell me who that UFOlogist you were talking about is who linked paranormal to UFOs? Why are you asking me who they are if you said a large number of them blah blah blah. I may be the guy who stuck up for the nerds who believe in little green men, but you got caught bullshitting and you won’t fess up. Come on! It’s just a friendly conversation. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/136 "2013-06-14T18:48:21Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > You should distinguish very carefully between what all the other witnesses say and what Penniston says, because he is now changing his story considerably. He now has a series of psychic messages he says he received at the time, and wrote down in notebooks that have only recently surfaced. > > [http://www.therendleshamforestincident.com/Penniston\_Notebook.html](http://www.therendleshamforestincident.com/Penniston_Notebook.html) > None of the other witnesses support any of this, even today. > Why should we believ Penniston’s increasingly paranormal story? The UFOs are being linked with paranormal phenomena by this witness himself. I was actually mostly relying on the Colonel’s testimony. And if one guy changed his story than that is to be considered. What about the rest. C’mon, you know it wasn’t a lighthouse. I’ll even concede that it wasn’t aliens if you admit they lied about the lighthouse. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/137 "2013-06-14T18:49:09Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > You should distinguish very carefully between what all the other witnesses say and what Penniston says, because he is now changing his story considerably. He now has a series of psychic messages he says he received at the time, and wrote down in notebooks that have only recently surfaced. > > [http://www.therendleshamforestincident.com/Penniston\_Notebook.html](http://www.therendleshamforestincident.com/Penniston_Notebook.html) > None of the other witnesses support any of this, even today. > Why should we believ Penniston’s increasingly paranormal story? The UFOs are being linked with paranormal phenomena by this witness himself. It looks like the cite that the OP wants to use as an example for separating the paranormal from UFO reports is actually a prime example of why the two are tied together. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/138 "2013-06-14T18:49:37Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > And you have had the chance to review all these primary sources during your three weeks of interest in UFOs. Yes. It’s not hard to get the info all sorted and nice when you show respect to those who do this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/139 "2013-06-14T18:52:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It looks like the cite that the OP wants to use as an example for separating the paranormal from UFO reports is actually a prime example of why the two are tied together. Aww. Did I hurt your feelings? So, do you have that list of the large number of UFOlogists that you know linked the paranormal to UFOs? Or was that bullshit? And the Rendlesham group still tells the same story. Yes there were some changes. I don’t know why and I can’t say they bolster my confidence in the rest of the story, but why did all these people tell this story? Why are they still insisting its true? We trust these guys with nukes. So, I say its interesting. You don’t have to agree, but at lease I didn’t make up facts like you did there Skippy! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/140 "2013-06-14T18:55:24Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > I’ve been answering questions all morning. How about you tell me who that UFOlogist you were talking about is who linked paranormal to UFOs? > > Why are you asking me who they are if you said a large number of them blah blah blah. I may be the guy who stuck up for the nerds who believe in little green men, but you got caught bullshitting and you won’t fess up. Come on! It’s just a friendly conversation. Yeah-the “friendliness” is just oozing from your posts here. I never said that UFOlogists linked the paranormal to UFOs, I said links existed all over the damn place(did you happen to Google “angels and aliens” like I asked? Over a million hits!) YOU are the one that brought up “UFOlogists”, then(after much prodding) declared that an authentic UFOlogist has a degree in Ufology and publishes in peer-reviewed journals. 1. Where does one get an accredited degree in Ufology? 2. What peer-reviewed journal covers Ufology? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976.md?page=8)