# Do you think linking UFOs with the paranormal is healthy for either discussion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 14, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976 "2013-06-14T08:16:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/141 "2013-06-14T18:56:45Z")
Oh! It was Bill Clinton btw who said his first two objectives were to find out who killed JFK and where the aliens were kept. I actually thought it was funny, but some people might have thought it was worth a look since he’s they guy who had his finger on the button for eight years. Reagan believed in UFOs too. While Governor of California he had his plane chase one until they couldn’t keep up any more. Thought that was funny too. Jimmy Carter’s story isn’t as funny. He just said that he and a house full of people saw one once. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/142 "2013-06-14T18:56:57Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > I was actually mostly relying on the Colonel’s testimony. And if one guy changed his story than that is to be considered. What about the rest. C’mon, you know it wasn’t a lighthouse. I’ll even concede that it wasn’t aliens if you admit they lied about the lighthouse. You see, you are looking at this from the wrong angle. The Lighthouse theory isn’t a lie; it is a reasonable response to the fact that at least two witnesses admit that they did actually chase the lighthouse for two miles. However it is not adequate to explain the entire chain of events, which went on for two nights (with a gap in between of two days). My suspicion is that these events occured simply because the witnesses (or some of them) were spooked into taking a wide range of unusual phenomena as corroboration of a single alien visitation, The lighthouse was part of it- but so was the meteor that probably started the event, and the tractor in the night with lights blazing, and the stars and planets observed inexpertly with the Starscope, and the inadequate radiation meter. Oh, and Penniston’s increasingly weird outpourings. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/143 "2013-06-14T18:57:20Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > We trust these guys with nukes. So, I say its interesting. You don’t have to agree, but at lease I didn’t make up facts like you did there Skippy! Be very careful there-what fact did I make up? ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/144 "2013-06-14T18:59:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If it weren’t for that fact that a large portion of “Ufologists” make the link between U.F.O.s and the paranormal themselves the subject would never come up at all. If you want there to be a separation between U.F.O.s and the paranormal, you’re speaking to the wrong crowd. Seems like this was from you. No? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/145 "2013-06-14T19:00:02Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Did you notice that at no time did stories of spirits, ghosts, dead people, or psychics come into play? Yes. So what? Are you trying to say the fact that we’ve discussed your topic but not related subjects proves that your topic is a more valid line of inquiry? It doesn’t. It just means we’ve stuck to the topic. I’ll grant you that might be unusual because sticking to the subject might not be our strong suit > [@](#): > > What I don’t like is people having to trash a subject because it scares or disinterests them. And I don’t like it when people call an objective evaluation of weak evidence “trashing” or say people who aren’t convinced are just frightened. That’s a really lazy excuse for an argument. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/146 "2013-06-14T19:00:22Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Jimmy Carter’s story isn’t as funny. He just said that he and a house full of people saw one once. > **[President Jimmy Carter's Sighting of a UFO (and Rosalynn's of a Ghost)](http://www.debunker.com/texts/carter_ufo.html)** > [@](#): > > Mr. Carter incorrectly recalled the date as sometime in October 1969. However, official records from the Lion’s Club International headquarters in Oakbrook, Illinois, give the date of Carter’s Leary Lion’s Club speech as January 6 of that year. Attempts to determine the date by interviewing numerous Leary residents had been unsuccessful. Mr. Carter made no mention of any “UFO sighting” in his report filed with the Lion’s Club. > > Although Carter reports that “ten members” of the Leary Lion’s Club also witnessed the event, attempts to locate ten other witnesses proved fruitless. No one else seems to have paid much attention to the “UFO.” While most Leary residents interviewed did recall Mr. Carter’s visit, even those who attended the meeting generally had no recollection or knowledge of any unidentified object being sighted. The only Leary resident who recalled the incident at all was Fred Hart, 1969 president of the Leary Lions Club, who faintly recalled standing outside with Carter watching a light in the sky. Mr. Hart believed that the object might have been a “weather balloon,” and said that the incident did not leave much of an impression on him. He believes the “UFO” to have been some ordinary object and agrees that it might have been a bright planet. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/147 "2013-06-14T19:01:47Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > You see, you are looking at this from the wrong angle. The Lighthouse theory isn’t a lie; it is a reasonable response to the fact that at least two witnesses admit that they did actually chase the lighthouse for two miles. However it is not adequate to explain the entire chain of events, which went on for two nights (with a gap in between of two days). > > My suspicion is that these events occured simply because the witnesses (or some of them) were spooked into taking a wide range of unusual phenomena as corroboration of a single alien visitation, The lighthouse was part of it- but so was the meteor that probably started the event, and the tractor in the night with lights blazing, and the stars and planets observed inexpertly with the Starscope, and the inadequate radiation meter. > > Oh, and Penniston’s increasingly weird outpourings. See now you’re the one being scary. These guys took armed precautions against what they believed was a security breach. They’ve spent the better part of their lives telling and retelling the story. Like I said before they’d have to be some pretty weird dudes to do that, which is not beyond the realm of possibility, but when you consider what their jobs were / are I hope it is aliens. At least then our nukes are still in capable hands. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/148 "2013-06-14T19:04:06Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > [President Jimmy Carter's Sighting of a UFO (and Rosalynn's of a Ghost)](http://www.debunker.com/texts/carter_ufo.html) Different story. I am talking about him and his family at their house after (can’t remember what kind) some party. I do recall that he had more than one story, but that’s the one I remember. The tape I saw was of him at a book signing recounting the story to somebody. The story wasn’t in the book - don’t know why they asked him about it. Prolly just thought it was a funny thing for a President to say. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/149 "2013-06-14T19:05:36Z")
It is a pattern that repeats over and over again; for this reason it is advisable to take most notice of the earliest statements made while the memories are still untainted by imagination. Luckily we have the Rendlesham reports and the tape, and we can interpret them directly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/150 "2013-06-14T19:07:06Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Seems like this was from you. No? It sure was. Note that I said “UFOlogists”, _not_ UFOlogists-which obviously indicates that I don’t think it’s to be taken seriously. You followed that be referring to them as if they had some sort of official status that should be taken seriously, which cause be to repeatedly ask what an authentic “UFOlogist” was. Since you have yet to tell us where one gets such a degree or publishes their peer-reviewed findings, I’m still wondering. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/151 "2013-06-14T19:07:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes. So what? Are you trying to say the fact that we’ve discussed your topic but not related subjects proves that your topic is a more valid line of inquiry? It doesn’t. It just means we’ve stuck to the topic. I’ll grant you that might be unusual because sticking to the subject might not be our strong suit > > And I don’t like it when people call an objective evaluation of weak evidence “trashing” or say people who aren’t convinced are just frightened. That’s a really lazy excuse for an argument. No. I am saying that one has nothing to do with the other. Did I say “trashing” 'cause that doesn’t sound like me. And many people are frightened and wish for the world to remain as they believe it is. Outside of UFOs I talk to a lot of people about conspiracies etc and it becomes readily apparent that fear does make quite a few subjects taboo. I wish it weren’t so, but it is. And to be fair it’s no more of a blatant generalization than you’ve been tossing around. So, turn about is fair play. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/152 "2013-06-14T19:08:09Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Different story. I am talking about him and his family at their house after (can’t remember what kind) some party. > > I do recall that he had more than one story, but that’s the one I remember. The tape I saw was of him at a book signing recounting the story to somebody. The story wasn’t in the book - don’t know why they asked him about it. Prolly just thought it was a funny thing for a President to say. Hmm. I suspect these are both the same story, mangled by time and bad reporting. But you may be right - some people do report more than one UFO. I’ve seen many things that might have been reported as UFOs by a different observer, but that s because I specifically look for them. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/153 "2013-06-14T19:08:38Z")
[http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/ufofairies.htm](http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/ufofairies.htm) UFO is the name given to the exact same phenomena as was called “fairies” before the Twentieth Century. “Witnesses” did not begin associating these poorly-observed impressions with structural devices until the popular imagination has incorporated airplanes and space ships instead of magical beasts and beings. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/154 "2013-06-14T19:10:20Z")
As far as conspiracies go, that is a different matter- unlike ghosts and aliens, we have good evidence for them actually existing. But most conspiracies one encounters on the internet are tripe. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/155 "2013-06-14T19:13:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What qualifies someone to be an authentic “UFOlogist”? They have a laminated card. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/156 "2013-06-14T19:13:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It looks like the cite that the OP wants to use as an example for separating the paranormal from UFO reports is actually a prime example of why the two are tied together. Exactly. Some (not all) witnesses start to exhibit the same symptoms as witnesses to paranormal phenomena - their stories become more elaborate, and include more extraordinary and supernatural elements over time. ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/157 "2013-06-14T19:14:54Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Hmm. I suspect these are both the same story, mangled by time and bad reporting. But you may be right - some people do report more than one UFO. I’ve seen many things that might have been reported as UFOs by a different observer, but that s because I specifically look for them. I can’t say he was telling the truth in either case. I just happened to be watching something were they were following him around and as part of the movie somebody asked him at a book signing and he recounted that story. The narrator started off by telling it, but he repeated the same story. For all I know the narrator heard it when they filmed him. Anyway, not one of the accounts I say is very interesting. Had he not been elected President, I wouldn’t even know about that one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RadioActiveRich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@RadioActiveRich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioActiveRich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/158 "2013-06-14T19:18:47Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Exactly. Some (not all) witnesses start to exhibit the same symptoms as witnesses to paranormal phenomena - their stories become more elaborate, and include more extraordinary and supernatural elements over time. Generalizations again. Unlike most people I tend to rely on human interactions and what their memory of the event is. I like current recollections of an old story. I know enough about human nature to tell when somebody is lying. That weeds out the complete morons. Then you’re left with those who believe what they’re saying whether they’re crazy, sociopaths, or telling the truth. There’s a thing about remembering a story though. People who want attention will usually add to the story or remember every single detail as if it were that very day. I don’t find those people to be credible. I like people who remember the big things and who couldn’t care less if you believe them or not. That tends to ring more true. Then again, I don’t claim to be studying this stuff. I just write about those who do. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/159 "2013-06-14T19:20:10Z")
He was almost certainly telling the truth as he remembered it - which, as Shaeffer points out in my link above, includes an error of several months in at least one of the cases. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976/160 "2013-06-14T19:20:22Z")
> [@RadioActiveRich](#): > > Generalizations again. Unlike most people I tend to rely on human interactions and what their memory of the event is. I like current recollections of an old story. Then you’re pretty much saying you prefer interesting memories to accurate ones. Memories get distorted over time. That’s not up for debate. > [@](#): > > I know enough about human nature to tell when somebody is lying. Everybody says that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-linking-ufos-with-the-paranormal-is-healthy-for-either-discussion/660976.md?page=9)