# Do you think North Africans look similar to any of these European populations? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 19, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603 "2012-06-19T02:32:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/1 "2012-06-19T02:32:51Z")
Going by physical appearance. This is the reverse of the other thread I asked about Sicily and it is the only other one I was intending to ask while I am here. So anyone who is bothered by this question simply does not have to vote on the thread. Choices are; Spanish Portuguese French Italians (peninsular) Sicilians South Slavs (Bulgarians, Serbs) Greeks ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/2 "2012-06-19T04:51:31Z")
My brother-in-law is of Algerian Jewish heritage; he looks like [this](http://www.galilon.co.il/system/files/ranface1.jpg). If I had to choose, I’d probably say Spanish (after all, he is Sephardic), but really, he just looks North African. ---
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/3 "2012-06-19T07:28:10Z")
I’m not so much bothered by the question as I am the idea that there is a North African “type.” I can’t say as I have a set definition of such a type, even if there is one. I’d be interested in hearing just how this came to be of so much interest to you that you started two threads on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/4 "2012-06-19T10:26:49Z")
I think the question should be “Do you think any of these European populations look similar to North Africans?” because that’s pretty much the direction the sperm flew back in the day. ETA: Yeah; which North Africans do you mean? Berbers? Moors? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![Gezmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Gezmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gezmo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/5 "2012-06-19T10:29:17Z")
North Africa is diverse. ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/6 "2012-06-19T21:59:11Z")
> [@Gezmo](#): > > North Africa is diverse. This is true. Hence the question is more about overlap rather than perfect matches. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/7 "2012-06-19T23:21:25Z")
On average, no. None. North Africans, to me, look vaguely Middle Eastern. And while some Southern Europeans might not stand out in the Middle East, I’d be hard pressed to find an area where most of the population would not. Except, of course, those areas in Southern Europe with a lot of Middle Eastern or North African immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/8 "2012-06-20T08:39:46Z")
I voted for Sicilian. My impression of Sicilians’ resemblance to North Africans is based not only on the Berber-featured Sicilian ladies whose [pictures](http://www.womex.com/virtual/alfamusic_label/michela_musolino) I [linked](http://www.flickr.com/photos/cil/1693100579/) to in the other thread, but also a cast of countenance that’s specifically Libyan. Mostly around the eyes. I see it a lot in Libyans and also in my Sicilian relatives, but nowhere else, really. Libya was the earliest center of Berber culture and in ancient times Libyan was synonymous with Berber. Libyans today are the product of an Arab-Berber blend with Carthaginian in the background. Which is also true, in part, of Sicilians. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/9 "2012-06-20T08:44:31Z")
I have seen N Africans who passed for Northern European. And middle easterners who have done so. And the occasional S Asian. Phenotypes vary a lot. Especially considering that the populations are all Caucasoid and there has been a lot of intermixing. ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/10 "2012-06-20T14:08:54Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Libya was the earliest center of Berber culture and in ancient times Libyan was synonymous with Berber. Libyans today are the product of an Arab-Berber blend with Carthaginian in the background. Which is also true, in part, of Sicilians. In Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, Berbers from Libya were represented and are on the far left of this; [![](http://www.catchpenny.org/images/seti1a.gif) ](http://www.catchpenny.org/images/seti1a.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/11 "2012-06-20T21:38:10Z")
> [@the\_apples\_fell](#): > > In Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, Berbers from Libya were represented and are on the far left of this; > > [http://www.catchpenny.org/images/seti1a.gif](http://www.catchpenny.org/images/seti1a.gif) OK, to be honest, none of my relatives look like _that_ guy. ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/12 "2012-06-20T22:00:22Z")
Ancient Egyptian wall portrayals probably were not that accurate. ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/13 "2012-06-23T05:01:12Z")
Any other opinions on this? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/14 "2012-06-25T23:53:44Z")
Well, there have been previous discussions of a similar matter in some depth. Here’s one: [are sicillians part black? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=134391) ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/15 "2012-06-27T17:05:45Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Well, there have been previous discussions of a similar matter in some depth. Here’s one: [are sicillians part black? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=134391) Alright, I’ll look it over. Thank you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/16 "2012-07-05T06:22:58Z")
Sorry to bump an old thread but here is some genetic data that is of some interest (pertaining to Moorish influences in Europe’s DNA). > **[Berber and Arab DNA in Europe from the Moorish occupation](https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/berber-and-arab-dna-in-europe-from-the-moorish-occupation/)** > > North African Berber and Arab Influences in the Western Mediterranean Revealed by Y-Chromosome DNA Haplotypes We have analyzed Y-chromosome diversity in the western Mediterranean area, examining p4… ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/17 "2012-09-26T19:34:51Z")
A genetic study if anyone is interested; > **[Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations](https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1002397)** > > Author Summary Proposed migrations between North Africa and neighboring regions have included Paleolithic gene flow from the Near East, an Arabic migration across the whole of North Africa 1,400 years ago (ya), and trans-Saharan transport of slaves... ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/18 "2013-07-09T18:41:16Z")
I realize I should have also included Maltese on here now that I think about it. Not sure why I didn’t. Maltese are geographically close to North Africa and they even speak an Arabic dialect from Tunisia originally that had been spoken in Sicily under Arab rule (“Siculo-Arabic”). Just an interesting thing I thought I’d point out if anyone was interested. ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/19 "2013-08-25T17:11:20Z")
If anyone finds it interesting, a genetic study that discusses this: > **[Southern Europeans have North African genes](https://phys.org/news/2013-06-southern-europeans-north-african-genes.html)** > > (Phys.org) —Southern Europeans are more genetically diverse than Northern Europeans. Geneticists have several different explanations for this phenomenon, one of which is migration from Africa to southern Europe. However, previous studies, which have... ---
**Author:** ![the\_apples\_fell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@the\_apples\_fell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_apples_fell)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603/20 "2014-08-20T02:05:45Z")
Not to bump an old thread but here is another genetic study about the populations of North Africa, for anyone who might find this interesting – those of you who like genetics and the connection to history. This suggests around a 5% genetic contribution to Iberia and Sicily from NW Africa. I would be surprised if it is not, in reality, higher than that though. > **[Introducing the Algerian Mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosome Profiles into the...](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0056775)** > > North Africa is considered a distinct geographic and ethnic entity within Africa. Although modern humans originated in this Continent, studies of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y-chromosome genealogical markers provide evidence that the North African... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-north-africans-look-similar-to-any-of-these-european-populations/625603.md?page=2)