# Do you think Obama counts as a black president? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289 "2012-12-17T08:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/1 "2012-12-17T08:50:23Z")
I see a lot of Americans being extremely happy about the fact that they have a Black president. [Cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=674037). I find this slightly surprising. Does Obama really even count as a black man? He’s only half black for one (by birth I mean, although to me he also seems more brown skinned than black). For another, he’s been brought up entirely by his white family, presumably in a cultural setting far removed from that of most blacks in America. Is America only able to look past his skin colour because it’s so easy to do? p.s I’m not American, and am approaching this question only out of curiosity and ignorance. Forgive any issues with political correctness and knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/2 "2012-12-17T08:57:00Z")
Check out the [one-drop rule](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_drop_rule). From the point of view of racists, Obama is most definitely black, and that means his election embodies a very decided “fuck you” to the racists from the non-racists. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/3 "2012-12-17T09:00:37Z")
He self identifies as black right? Isn’t that what counts? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/4 "2012-12-17T09:02:18Z")
He’s blacker than me. And Mitt Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/5 "2012-12-17T09:05:47Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I see a lot of Americans being extremely happy about the fact that they have a Black president. [Cite](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=674037). I find this slightly surprising. Does Obama really even count as a black man? He’s only half black for one (by birth I mean, although to me he also seems more brown skinned than black). For another, he’s been brought up entirely by his white family, presumably in a cultural setting far removed from that of most blacks in America. Is America only able to look past his skin colour because it’s so easy to do? > > p.s I’m not American, and am approaching this question only out of curiosity and ignorance. Forgive any issues with political correctness and knowledge. But don’t most black people you know seem more brown than black? Check it out…Black Americans are only 12 percent of the society we live in. That means ALL of us grew up in so called ‘white culture’ regardless of whether we have a white mom or not. This society has always looked at brown skin and decided “Black”. Always. Until a black president came along, then some people strangely started finding LOTS of ways to decide that the one drop rule isn’t really in effect anymore. He identifies as black, he grew up being viewed as black, and he chose the black subculture in American to embrace. Good enough for us Americans to go ahead and say, “Yay! First black prez!” ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/6 "2012-12-17T09:05:52Z")
He self-identifies as black, was born and raised in a time when he would have been treated as black by the vast majority of Americans, and when people look at him now, they probably identify his physical features as black (would be hard to do an experiment on this, though). That, in American society, tends to lead to experiencing life as “black.” ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/7 "2012-12-17T09:07:04Z")
He is not of West African decent either like almost all blacks in the US. PS I am a foreigner as well. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/8 "2012-12-17T09:19:56Z")
Of course he’s black, what else would he be? White? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/9 "2012-12-17T09:30:57Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > But don’t most black people you know seem more brown than black? I unfortunately know very few black people, most of them from when I visited America once. And no, going strictly by colour of skin, Obama’s seems lighter hued than many of the black people I met. And also lighter than most black people I’ve seen on TV etc. Not that this part is really germane to any of what I’m curious about. > [@](#): > > Check it out…Black Americans are only 12 percent of the society we live in. That means ALL of us grew up in so called ‘white culture’ regardless of whether we have a white mom or not. This society has always looked at brown skin and decided “Black”. Always. Until a black president came along, then some people strangely started finding LOTS of ways to decide that the one drop rule isn’t really in effect anymore. Didn’t he grow up as part of a white family in Hawaii and Indonesia? To me it seems to say that his cultural experiences would not be anything like the sort of cultural experiences a typical black person may have while growing up. > [@](#): > > He identifies as black, he grew up being viewed as black, and he chose the black subculture in American to embrace. Good enough for us Americans to go ahead and say, “Yay! First black prez!” He grew up being viewed as black in Hawaii and Indonesia though. Wikipedia quotes him > [@](#): > > Obama wrote: “The opportunity that Hawaii offered—to experience a variety of cultures in a climate of mutual respect—became an integral part of my world view, and a basis for the values that I hold most dear.” The embracing black subculture bit is interesting. Could you elaborate? > [@Kolga](#): > > He self-identifies as black, was born and raised in a time when he would have been treated as black by the vast majority of Americans, and when people look at him now, they probably identify his physical features as black (would be hard to do an experiment on this, though). That, in American society, tends to lead to experiencing life as “black.” My response to you would be similar to my response to **Nzinga**. Nothing about his life seems to say - a typical black american would have similar experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/10 "2012-12-17T09:33:24Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > My response to you would be similar to my response to **Nzinga**. Nothing about his life seems to say - a typical black american would have similar experiences. My response to you would be - hey, you know what? You don’t get to decide what constitutes the “typicality” of the life of another person. Obama spent a great deal of his early life overseas, yes, but also in America, which DOES see someone of his appearance as black. Thus, his AMERICAN experience would be as a black man. Thus, AMERICA would see him as a black man, and he defines himself as a black man. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/11 "2012-12-17T09:34:26Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Of course he’s black, what else would he be? White? In fact, yes, I think that’s exactly what I’m getting at. To me, his experiences, particularly during his formative years, seem to be far closer to those a white person would have. Again, I am not american and don’t claim to fully, or even partially, or even at all understand the US. I’m just telling you what it seems like to me, and wondering if Americans see it differently, and why. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/12 "2012-12-17T09:39:51Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > My response to you would be - hey, you know what? You don’t get to decide what constitutes the “typicality” of the life of another person. > > Obama spent a great deal of his early life overseas, yes, but also in America, which DOES see someone of his appearance as black. Thus, his AMERICAN experience would be as a black man. Thus, AMERICA would see him as a black man, and he defines himself as a black man. As far as I can tell, Obama grew up almost entirely in Hawaii. And surely a statement that the average Black person in America does not grow up in Hawaii as part of a white family is not “deciding what constitutes the “typicality” of the life of another person”? Am I wrong in thinking that a white person is far more likely to grow up as part of a white family, and even grow up in Hawaii, than a black person is? ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/13 "2012-12-17T09:40:48Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > In fact, yes, I think that’s exactly what I’m getting at. To me, his experiences, particularly during his formative years, seem to be far closer to those a white person would have. Again, I am not american and don’t claim to fully, or even partially, or even at all understand the US. I’m just telling you what it seems like to me, and wondering if Americans see it differently, and why. No black-looking person in the US experiences life like a white person. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/14 "2012-12-17T09:45:38Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > No black-looking person in the US experiences life like a white person. Maybe so, but he is also saying that he is also on record as saying that he grew up in a culture of “mutual respect” in Hawaii. Presumably that is not the same as the experience of most black looking people in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/15 "2012-12-17T09:46:10Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > No black-looking person in the US experiences life like a white person. So much this. It doesn’t matter that Obama’s family was mostly white in America during his formative years. His experiences, because of the nature of his physical appearance, will fundamentally be different than white Americans. They may or may not be different than the average black American, but to say that his experiences and not his physical appearance make him white is, shall we say, uninformed? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/16 "2012-12-17T09:51:36Z")
It is amusing how people expect Obama to be the same as the typical black man in order to accept that he’s black, but they don’t expect George Bush’s life to reflect the typical white man to accept that he’s white. Not many presidents are going to come from typical backgrounds. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/17 "2012-12-17T09:58:17Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > So much this. > > It doesn’t matter that Obama’s family was mostly white in America during his formative years. His experiences, because of the nature of his physical appearance, will fundamentally be different than white Americans. They may or may not be different than the average black American, but to say that his experiences and not his physical appearance make him white is, shall we say, uninformed? I have no doubt this would be true in the vast majority of the US, but in a state that is geographically removed from the rest of the country and where the population is, per wiki, > [@](#): > > 38.6% Asian, 24.7% White (22.7% Non-Hispanic White Alone), 23.6% from Two or More Races, 10.0% Native Hawaiians and Other Pacific Islanders, 8.9% Hispanics and Latinos of any race, 1.6% Black or African American, 1.2% from Some Other race, and 0.3% American Indian and Alaska Native. where his skin colour could probably be taken for native, where a quarter of the population is also mixed race, where his only relatives are white, where the african american population is small, would he necessarily grow up having having similar, or indeed any of the experiences that a black person would grow up with in the rest of the US? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/18 "2012-12-17T10:04:52Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > It is amusing how people expect Obama to be the same as the typical black man in order to accept that he’s black, but they don’t expect George Bush’s life to reflect the typical white man to accept that he’s white. > > Not many presidents are going to come from typical backgrounds. Is it true that most presidents don’t come from typical backgrounds? Also, I’m not disputing that Obama’s black. Merely wondering if his election as president means that the US now views black people as politically able to be president. From the outside, it seems as though he’s a black man who was easy to elect because he’s really just a white man with brown skin (and intelligent, charismatic and a good man of course). You were mentioning earlier about his embrace of black subculture. I would be interested in knowing more. ( Also, I’m not saying that black people are otherwise different under the skin. People are all the same, races are not meaningful physical distinctions etc.) I mean cultural ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/19 "2012-12-17T10:09:20Z")
Are those demographics from now? Because the president was born 50 years ago, and 50 years ago, the status of black Americans in the entire country (yes, including Hawaii) was very different than it is now. And Obama’s physical features other than skin color would lead him to mostly likely not be mistaken for native Hawaiian. If you’re arguing that Americans should have a more nuanced view of the race and ethnicity of our current president, I would agree. > [@bldysabba](#): > > Is it true that most presidents don’t come from typical backgrounds? Yes. Most modern presidents have come from relatively privileged backgrounds (in terms of SES and education) in comparison to the rest of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/20 "2012-12-17T10:12:06Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Maybe so, but he is also saying that he is also on record as saying that he grew up in a culture of “mutual respect” in Hawaii. Presumably that is not the same as the experience of most black looking people in the US? Are Sasha and Malia possibly not black either? After all, they’re the only black people in history to grow up like they are. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289.md?page=2)