# Do you think Obama counts as a black president? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289 "2012-12-17T08:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/61 "2012-12-17T20:08:56Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > To use a term that’s gone out of favor (except in Jay-Z songs, apparently), Obama is [high yellow](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_yellow), which is still most definitely “black” if it isn’t exactly **black**. There’s a difference between light brown and yellow. Not that it even matters. But Obama isn’t a bit yellow. That’s my kid too. Light brown, not at all yellow, probably because my own coloring is cool, not warm. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/62 "2012-12-17T20:25:04Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > No. That’s not what he said. He said he changes his style for black audiences, and allows black idioms to come through, loosens up, jazz it up, sure. That is not the same as saying you talk ‘black’ for black audiences. There is a difference. > > I know I can use my black slang and black English with my friends, but when I have to cut those things out, I’m not speaking ‘white’ or ‘non black’. I am speaking formally or professionally. The same way that my white co-workers who say “Gonna, gotta, you betcha” or whatever may have to switch to “going to, got to, yes ma’am” when certain clients are on the phone. > > When I get home and relax and allow black slang to enter my speech, I’m not all of a sudden 'speaking black". > > If I had certain clients on my phone, where I smelled real money, my English became absolutely flawless, without so much as a dropped g. That doesn’t mean I sound white. > > Well, President Blackman needs to stop uncle tommin and black it up! I am so glad you post here. Some folks in these parts trigger my strangling reflex, then someone who knows what the hell they’re talking about comes along and breaks it down for some folks in a calmer and kinder way than I can. I would have started the above post with, “You dumb shits…” So in response to the OP, of course he is black. Race and race relations are essentially based on what you look like alone. People are not going to swab the inside of your mouth for a DNA test to determine your racial makeup. If you appear to be black, people will think you are black, and you will be treated like you are black (which, in case you haven’t heard, isn’t very kindly). When little old ladies are afraid of you, it’s not because they think you’re white. Not a lot of people are going to look at a [brown skinned man with a little afro](http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l217/Shockwave_73/YoungObama.jpg) named Barack and treat him like a white man. Obama is black. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/63 "2012-12-17T21:26:20Z")
It was easy MOL. I just pictured my well intentioned white dopers looking up wiki articles on ‘high yeller’ and reading up on things like ‘code switching’ and I take pity. It cracks me up that some white people\* think we ‘code switch’ from our black voice to our white voice for their benefit. Remember Obama saying, “Naw, I’m [straight](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30-lYueJivk&noredirect=1).” when a cashier asked if he needed change? White folks really think he planned that…as if that isn’t just totally natural to say when you are around people you have a common bond, including dialect with. Some whites thought he was ‘putting that on’. No. He is relaxing into the way he speaks when he doesn’t have to be all formal and professional. He isn’t ‘talking black’. When he DOES have to speak all proper, dropping his black idioms and dialects…his voice is still black. To me. I just don’t know \*\*what \*\*white folks hear. \*Whynot, I know you didn’t say that…I’m speaking to a wider audience with this. \*\* Dang, I love that pic of Obama. I love all his cool pics from his younger days. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/64 "2012-12-17T21:56:40Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > And I still think he’s “whiter” than Bill Clinton. Please explain in what way. > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > When he DOES have to speak all proper, dropping his black idioms and dialects…his voice is still black. To me. I just don’t know \*\*what \*\*white folks hear. “Oh, he’s not speaking in colloquialisms that I don’t understand. Why, I say, he sounds positively white!” ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/65 "2012-12-17T22:56:25Z")
Didn’t Toni Morrison declare Bill Clinton “our first Black President”? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/66 "2012-12-17T23:06:34Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > I was about 20 at the time and it has caused me to go out of my way to speak to the single black person at an event, or any other “fish out of water” over the years. Perhaps I would be a better person if I didn’t need to make a special effort, but in fact I find it difficult to speak to strangers at all, so that isn’t going to happen. No, I don’t try to be hip or whatever. Usually just nod and say hello without fear or suspicion. Sometimes they want to chat, others not. Thank you for this. Being the only “one” all the time is hard enough, but what’s really hard is when people who have never been in this position tell you that it isn’t that hard. Sometimes it really does suck, and not just because of racists. Even decent people have a strange way of not seeing the sore thumb in their midst. I imagine disabled people go through a similar type of alienation. And yes, Obama has the resonance of blackness in voice. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/67 "2012-12-18T14:54:08Z")
Well, Bill Clinton could definitely appreciate a nice big ass, does that count? Really, it’s kind of funny - Obama has to be More Presidential than other people do because he’s black, the same way that a woman in a “man’s job” has to work twice as hard and so forth. Poor Obama has to do everything just right. He can’t get fat. He can’t be all LBJ and be naked at you. He can’t go around calling people Turdblossom. His kids have to be perfect and perfectly behaved and look all perfect and shit. Bill Clinton could be a good ol’ boy and jog while overweight and love him some Big Macs and look at a girl’s big ass every so often. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/68 "2012-12-18T18:04:03Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > It was easy MOL. I just pictured my well intentioned white dopers looking up wiki articles on ‘high yeller’ and reading up on things like ‘code switching’ and I take pity. > > It cracks me up that some white people\* think we ‘code switch’ from our black voice to our white voice for their benefit. > > Remember Obama saying, “Naw, I’m [straight](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30-lYueJivk&noredirect=1).” when a cashier asked if he needed change? White folks really think he planned that…as if that isn’t just totally natural to say when you are around people you have a common bond, including dialect with. Some whites thought he was ‘putting that on’. > > No. He is relaxing into the way he speaks when he doesn’t have to be all formal and professional. He isn’t ‘talking black’. > > When he DOES have to speak all proper, dropping his black idioms and dialects…his voice is still black. To me. I just don’t know \*\*what \*\*white folks hear. > > \*Whynot, I know you didn’t say that…I’m speaking to a wider audience with this. > > \*\* Dang, I love that pic of Obama. I love all his cool pics from his younger days. You’re just arguing semantics. To “talk black” is to use black slang and hints of AAVE. To not do so is to “talk white.” Yeah, Obama sounds Black all the time to me, too, specifically because of the timbre. Doesn’t mean he’s never talked white. Asian people have a certain timbre to their voice, too. Doesn’t mean I think they’re talking Asian all the time. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/69 "2012-12-18T18:15:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re just arguing semantics. To “talk black” is to use black slang and hints of AAVE. To not do so is to “talk white.” Yeah, Obama sounds Black all the time to me, too, specifically because of the timbre. Doesn’t mean he’s never talked white. > > Asian people have a certain timbre to their voice, too. Doesn’t mean I think they’re talking Asian all the time. Okay, first of all, every time a white person uses the term “AAVE,” god kills a kitten. Second, dialing back the colloquialisms isn’t “talking white.” It’s “talking.” The same as when you cut back on the informal speech in a formal setting. This not switching between talking white and off-white. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/70 "2012-12-18T18:17:55Z")
I was indeed referencing Toni Morrison. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/71 "2012-12-18T19:13:24Z")
Can black people say “AAVE”? The rules are really complicated sometimes. ETA - that wasn’t meant to be snarky - seriously, the rules are really complicated! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/72 "2012-12-18T19:25:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You’re just arguing semantics. To “talk black” is to use black slang and hints of AAVE. To not do so is to “talk white.” . “Talking white” means talking like a stereotypical white person. Just like “talking black” means talking like a stereotypical black person. It’s obnoxious when white is always made to be the standard upon which all others are defined against. Obama sounds like a black guy when he speaks, not because of the words he uses, but because of the quality and intonation of his voice. His style of oratory is also not unlike a lot of black ministers. At the heart of this perennial topic of discussion is the idea that because Obama doesn’t fit the mold of the stereotypical black person, then he isn’t really black. Like being black goes hand in hand with living in da hood, being poor and uncultured, hating “whitey”, looking and speaking a certain way, and being isolated from whites. I will say this: The hardcore cynic in me believes the “not really black” meme that is attached to Obama did enable him to get elected. And Obama, being the political genius that he is, recognized this a long time ago. By shining the spotlight on his white mother and grandparents in his books and throughout his first campaign, he successfully convinced white folks that he wasn’t really one of those scary black people. I can’t even be mad at him for executing such devious strategy, but I can plainly see that him playing up the “not really black” mystique has come at the cost of validating the notion there is something wrong with being certifiably and undeniably black. Hence the annoyed reactions of black folks in this thread (myself included). What, exactly, is wrong with calling Obama black and letting the issue drop? Why do people find it so difficult to reconcile being black with having white relatives and living in semi-exotic locales? Why is it expected that the first black president would be a perfect composite of the African American population, when historically, most presidents have been more or less outliers? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/73 "2012-12-18T19:38:46Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Can black people say “AAVE”? The rules are really complicated sometimes. > > ETA - that wasn’t meant to be snarky - seriously, the rules are really complicated! Heh, I don’t think there are rules against using the term. I am just personally irritated by it and have found its usage, something nearing 100% of the time, to be by white people as a catch-all phrase to describe any time a colored person doesn’t talk good. Every time I hear a white person using it, all I can hear is “Well I took a sociology class once…” ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/74 "2012-12-18T20:23:20Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Okay, first of all, every time a white person uses the term “AAVE,” god kills a kitten. Second, dialing back the colloquialisms isn’t “talking white.” It’s “talking.” The same as when you cut back on the informal speech in a formal setting. This not switching between talking white and off-white. AAVE is a linguistics label, and in fact refers to a sociolect. Sociolects are different from dialects in that which sociolect you’re using depends on context. Most people have different sociolects, for instance, I talk much differently with my friends than I do with my professors than I do with my family. Those are all examples of different sociolects. So when I “cut back on the informal speech in a formal setting” it is, in fact, doing the EXACT same thing AAVE speakers do in a formal setting. We both switch from our respective colloquial sociolects to Standard American Academic English. AAVE just happens to be a sociolect that has a more well known label (I think it has rather unique properties and is considered more noticeable than most sociolects as well, but I’m not 100% sure on that). Though I won’t deny that most people who know the term probably don’t know that they do the same thing and think it’s just a way to denote “black people speak”. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/75 "2012-12-18T20:39:22Z")
The simple, correct answer is “of COURSE Obama is black!” But since I’m rarely content to leave simple answers alone… humor me a second. SUPPOSE that Barry Goldwater had been elected President in 1964 (yeah, like THAT was ever going to happen!). Would American Jews have exclaimed happily, “Antisemitism is over! America elected a Jewish President?” Hardly! After all, despite his ancestry, Goldwater was a right-wing Protestant who wasn’t running as a Jew. Most Jewish Americans in 1964 would have sighed and said, “He isn’t one of us and his election doesn’t prove anything particularly good about American attitudes toward Jews.” Is it so outlandish that some black Americans even now might wonder, “Sure, it’s nice that white folks will vote for a preppy black academic who talks white… but would they ever vote for a black candidate who really came from the ghetto, or from a family of Mississippi sharecroppers?” ---
**Author:** ![DeweyDecibel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DeweyDecibel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeweyDecibel)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/76 "2012-12-18T20:47:18Z")
Yes, he’s a black president. In the US race seems to be defined by a combination of looks and self-identification. He looks black and calls himself black, therefore he is. If he looked white but had the same parentage, there may be more debate, but he does not. He looks like an African American (who seem to sometimes be a bit lighter than Africans). I am sure that he has faced racism before becoming president, has certainly faced it as president, and has lived his life as someone 99% of Americans would have called “black” if given a picture before he rose to prominence. He’s lived 50whatever years in the US where he is almost universally put in the category of “black”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/77 "2012-12-18T20:56:46Z")
Obama looks a lot like Stanley Dunham, his maternal grandfather. [BARACK OBAMA ON HAWAII BEACH WITH GRANDFATHER | BARACK OBAMA… | Flickr](http://www.flickr.com/photos/37751310@N08/3468924055/) ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/78 "2012-12-18T20:58:17Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Is it so outlandish that some black Americans even now might wonder, “Sure, it’s nice that white folks will vote for a preppy black academic who talks white… but would they ever vote for a black candidate who really came from the ghetto, or from a family of Mississippi sharecroppers?” In real life (not media life), the people I ever hear wondering if Obama is “really black” are white people. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/79 "2012-12-18T21:02:33Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Is it so outlandish that some black Americans even now might wonder, “Sure, it’s nice that white folks will vote for a preppy black academic who talks white… but would they ever vote for a black candidate who really came from the ghetto, or from a family of Mississippi sharecroppers?” Yeah, but how many people who grew up “white trash” are ever going to get elected president? “Preppy academic” (or “war hero”), or at the **very least** “rich” is pretty much the standard for president as it is. Almost none of them came from truly poor backgrounds. ETA: According to [this article](http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0718/p09s01-coop.html) Obama may actually be one of the poorest presidential candidates with “only” a $1M income in 2007. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/80 "2012-12-18T21:08:09Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > In real life (not media life), the people I ever hear wondering if Obama is “really black” are white people. Same here. The other thing is that while black people may recognize that Obama’s biracial narrative helped his success, they still see his win as a big fuckin deal. I haven’t met any black person who has said “yeah he won…but he’s not really black, so what?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289.md?page=5)