# Do you think Obama counts as a black president? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289 "2012-12-17T08:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/101 "2012-12-19T20:28:58Z")
Have I said something that you disagree with in either a personal or academic sense? I’m more than open to correction in either field. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/102 "2012-12-19T20:43:01Z")
Has anybody posted Chris Rock’s video where he says [you should vote for Obama because he’s white](http://www.examiner.com/article/chris-rock-obama-is-white-video)? We’re obsessed with race in America. Obama is what he is. A hundred years ago, he would have been subject to all the Jim Crow laws around this great country. In another hundred years, most Americans will be of mixed race, and this will all be hard to understand in history class. Right now, it’s a remarkable point in history. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/103 "2012-12-19T20:50:49Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Oh god. The white people are discussing what “talking black” means. I’m out. > > Btw, Zinga, love that random Obama video. The ball portion was by far the best part, and felt like watching two guys I know hang out. I think it’s because he was talking black. 😉 Oh, you are black? I didn’t know that. I pictured you as a blond sorority girl type! Ha. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/104 "2012-12-20T03:09:18Z")
I have never, ever heard a Black person - from Ghanian immigrants to brothers from the hood - question Obama’s Blackness. First, dude _looks_ Black. As many have noted, he doesn’t look biracial. In fact, I had no idea his mom was White until he gave that speech at the '04 DNC. I had seen him profiled with Deval Patrick in some magazine when I was in grad school, and it actually mentioned that Patrick might be our first Black president. At the end, there was this snippet, “Oh yeah, there’s this guy Obama who Patrick knew in law school, he’s pretty smart too.” I thought he was 100 percent straight up Negro. Second, he has embraced his Blackness. Perhaps most importantly, he married a Black woman, and is close to her family. He attended a Black church. He has social and political views congruent to the majority of Black Americans. And on the cultural tip, two bonuses: he loves basketball and is conversant with hip-hop. Let me be clear: if you put five Black men together in any context, invariably, at some point, the conversation will veer to one of these topics (or Black women). I don’t even like pro basketball, but I have to stay abreast of developments when I go to the barbershop. Obama can bust out Jay-Z lyrics; that makes him down. All of this stuff can be faked for an interview, but not so much in day-to-day. One thing that is essential for Black folks is realness. Every stage of his life, people describe Obama the same way. You never hear about this time when he was dating all White women, or working for a rich Republican banker. He has always been connected with the issues and concerns of urban folks, who are mostly Black and poor. And he did it in Chicago, which is one of the Blackest cities out there. As someone who has heard many times that I talk like a White person, I’d say that I do not detect that corny nasal White guy accent from BHO. (You can hear Professor Edward Murphy demonstrate it [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HktV2yGtLv8).) There is a Black conservative talking head who’s cross-eyed (anyone know who I’m talking about?) who sounds like a “White guy.” But educated Black person talk ≠ “sounding White.” There’s a difference. There are Black people that talk very formally in every socioeconomic strata, usually those who are in the clergy, education, or in business. But yes, most of us code switch frequently without even realizing it. I do this and it usually isn’t until someone points it out that I even notice. Once I was at a conference with some of my graduate students in tow, and I ran into some Black male friends (some of whom are in my fraternity). One of my students said to me, “Wow, you sound _really_ different when you talk to those guys!” Of course, these guys are all professors or researchers and can speak real pretty, but we get a little gully and a little gritty when we’re together. Last - BHO can _sang_ a little. You heard him doing Al Green. That one line solidified his Blackness. He couldn’t be Blacker if he was on the Soul Train Line in 1976. Trust me, only White people and non-Americans are having this discussion regarding whether he’s Black or not. 🙂 I live in Texas. Next door in Louisiana we got Black folks who are brighter than most White people. Obama is not even close to being yellow, let along high yellow. He just looks like an ordinary Black person. I would say that I can detect an “African” look in his lineage - when I learned his dad was Kenyan that didn’t surprise me. But the biracial thing, nope, never detected it. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/105 "2012-12-20T06:27:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I doubt that a knowledgeable linguist would call AAVE a “creole”. That has a specific meaning in linguistics, and I don’t see how AAVE could qualify. No, that meshes with what I know. It’s not that AAVE **is** a creole, one of its “unique features” that I alluded to is that it contains numerous aspects that creoles normally contain but sociolects don’t. [Wikipedia agrees](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English): > [@](#): > > AAVE shares several characteristics with Creole English language-forms spoken by people throughout much of the world. AAVE has pronunciation, grammatical structures, and vocabulary in common with various West African languages. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/106 "2012-12-20T07:22:34Z")
Black is a qualified skin color. Yes, Obama’s black. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/107 "2012-12-20T09:02:45Z")
I don’t care about subtleties of whether Obama is black or not, but I found [this picture](http://sandrarose.com/images17/Obama-covers-Time.jpg?42e305) interesting. That’s the cover of the latest Time magazine, with Obama’s “Person of the Year” picture. Obama looks _really black_ in that picture. The almost bluish kind of black that’s on that end of the human color spectrum. Surely this was deliberate; all magazine photos go through a color balance step and the final shade can be almost anything. The border and background color selection also surely has an effect. I’m a bit curious why they chose that color balance. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/108 "2012-12-20T09:53:50Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > He self-identifies as black, was born and raised in a time when he would have been treated as black by the vast majority of Americans, and when people look at him now, they probably identify his physical features as black (would be hard to do an experiment on this, though). That, in American society, tends to lead to experiencing life as “black.” Pay that. Can’t really see an argument. How many “blacks” are 100% bloodlines anyway? Having a percentage of some other blood doesn’t make you less of what you identify with. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/109 "2012-12-20T14:14:46Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I think it’s kind of funny you said “right or wrong”, like it may be right to prefer attractive people for reasons other than sexual attraction. But I don’t think they’re unusually attractive anyway. I think they look and act classy, and I like them, but they look like a nice family, not a family of models or anything. We may be misunderstanding each other here: I wasn’t implying that Americans are sexually attracted to the Obamas, just that good looks seem to matter, esp to those who buy People magazine. I recall (no cite and cant remember the guy’s name), but some fashion designer was frothing at the mouth after Obama was elected because runway model clothes would look good on Michelle (who IIRC is 6 ft tall or close to it). Apparently designers like famous people to wear their clothing, and he remarked that she was the only first lady in recent history who had the frame for it. Beauty of course is in the eye of the beholder, but I personally think they are a very attractive First family. YMMV as always. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/110 "2012-12-20T14:16:05Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Oh, you are black? I didn’t know that. I pictured you as a blond sorority girl type! Ha. Heh. You must’ve read that thread where she screamed like a schoolgirl after seeing a cute little mouse. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/111 "2012-12-20T14:24:34Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > No, that meshes with what I know. It’s not that AAVE **is** a creole, one of its “unique features” that I alluded to is that it contains numerous aspects that creoles normally contain but sociolects don’t. [Wikipedia agrees](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English): OK, but just so you know what pinged my radar was that in your original post you said it shared certain aspects with other creoles. That wording implies it is a creole, itself. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/112 "2012-12-20T20:41:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, but just so you know what pinged my radar was that in your original post you said it shared certain aspects with other creoles. That wording implies it is a creole, itself. That wasn’t my post, but I see what you’re saying. I’m not sure if LPN was misremembering or mistyped, but you’re correct. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/113 "2012-12-20T21:51:14Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I don’t know, bldysabba. Do you really think most Americans took into account the nuances of Obama’s background? > > This idea that they are at the voting booth, taking into account the fact that Hawaiian public schools didn’t racially segregate is really giving Americans the benefit of the doubt in terms of deep thinking and critical analysis. > > So, yes, I think if another black man made a play for office, and he looked black, self identified as black and was born in America and raised here, being black, then yeah, he would have as good a chance as any black man that was raised by white parents, or in Hawaii, or any other such random and specific details. > > But, let’s say it happened. Let’s say a man was Black, descended from slaves which were shipped from West Africa, and he was voted president. > > You would hear people say, “Well, President Blackman is lightskinned. He isn’t really black because his skintone is so light that he never felt the real hardship of the field negro” > > Or, “Well, President Blackman married a white woman…he’s not really black. He goes to a white church, too. He has embraced white culture.” > > Or, “Well President Blackman identifies as a cablanasian”. > > Or, “Well, President Blackman isn’t really black. His mother is only a quarter black, and his father was a heart surgeon. That certainly isn’t the case for most black Americans” > > It just never ends. It is one of those things that some people have to learn to accept. The president is black, it \*happened \*and it could happen again. People have to accept it…we can’t wish it away. It has happened. A black man is the president of the United States of America. > > ETA: Blackberry, I would disagree with you about ‘sounding Black’. Obama definitely has a ‘black voice’. He has that black man’s timbre. In my opinion, anyway. If I never met him, but heard him on the phone, I would KNOW he is black. Ahh, yes. The No True Blacksman Fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/114 "2012-12-20T22:16:31Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Obama looks a lot like Stanley Dunham, his maternal grandfather. [BARACK OBAMA ON HAWAII BEACH WITH GRANDFATHER | BARACK OBAMA… | Flickr](http://www.flickr.com/photos/37751310@N08/3468924055/) What is that little black kid doing on top of Leonard Nimoy?! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/115 "2012-12-20T22:48:30Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > What is that little black kid doing on top of Leonard Nimoy?! It’s Tuvok! ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/116 "2012-12-21T00:04:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s Tuvok! Yay! The irony being Tuvok was black and 100% Vulcan, and Spock was white and half human, half Vulcan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/117 "2012-12-21T00:09:15Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Yay! > > The irony being Tuvok was black and 100% Vulcan, and Spock was white and half human, half Vulcan. The other irony is that some people like to refer to Obama as “Spock” because he can be overly analytical. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289/118 "2012-12-21T00:17:08Z")
I saw this “[magic glasses](http://cheezburger.com/6893792768)” thing today and thought of this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-obama-counts-as-a-black-president/644289.md?page=5)