# Do you think Russia might be right about some things Obama will discuss? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102 "2009-07-06T16:40:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TheMadHun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@TheMadHun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMadHun)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/1 "2009-07-06T16:40:03Z")
Russia said that anti-missile defenses in Poland should be tied to offensive arms limits. I don’t see why not. Bush always maintained it was not to protect Poland from Russia but Poland and Russia from Iran. A transparent absurdity. Obama is supposedly going to question keeping Mikhail B. Khodorkovsky in jail, once Russia’s richest man. Well, I think he should be in jail. He became rich when there supposedly were no rich in the USSR, and you can be sure it was not done honestly, but by being a robber baron. And of course there’s the dispute with Georgia. An aggressive dictatorship with an ethnic cleansing agenda, that we somehow got stuck supporting just to spite Russia. Cold war politics on both sides that needs taming, not inflaming. \*\* OOPS - Please move this to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/2 "2009-07-06T16:47:04Z")
> [@TheMadHun](#): > > And of course there’s the dispute with Georgia. An aggressive dictatorship with an ethnic cleansing agenda, that we somehow got stuck supporting just to spite Russia. Cold war politics on both sides that needs taming, not inflaming. Georgia’s a democracy, and it doesn’t have a particularly aggressive foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/3 "2009-07-06T16:58:30Z")
> [@TheMadHun](#): > > Obama is supposedly going to question keeping Mikhail B. Khodorkovsky in jail, once Russia’s richest man. Well, I think he should be in jail. He became rich when there supposedly were no rich in the USSR, and you can be sure it was not done honestly, but by being a robber baron. Yeah, he definitely wasn’t jailed for opposing Putin’s [del]KGB[/del] government and was clearly the only man to get rich during Yeltsin’s reign :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/4 "2009-07-06T17:06:04Z")
The idea that Russia could wish away missile defense shields is like the caveman wishing away the spear. The cat is out of the bag and missile defense will be the next big thing once we figure out how to get it to work. Already Russia has missiles with countermeasures, dummy warhead strategies, etc. They’re just worried the US’s superior technology is, again, putting a check on their aging 1980’s military equipment. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/5 "2009-07-07T12:38:58Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > The idea that Russia could wish away missile defense shields is like the caveman wishing away the spear. The cat is out of the bag and missile defense will be the next big thing once we figure out how to get it to work. Already Russia has missiles with countermeasures, dummy warhead strategies, etc. They’re just worried the US’s superior technology is, again, putting a check on their aging 1980’s military equipment. Hah. The Soviets conducted their first successful ABM ‘test kill’ in the early Sixties, and have had an active ABM system around Moscow for donkey’s years, in addition to all the various theatre-level mobile systems they have deployed that are capable of hitting Scud/Lance type shorter-range missiles in a Patriot stylee hit-some miss-some style. Based on operationally deployed systems (rather than experimental money-pits) you could even make an argument that the Russians are ahead of the US. They’re not worried in the least about the US superior technologies because they’re completely irrelevant to a full-on strategic strike - even a few hundred seventies-tech MIRV warheads would overwhelm anything the US can field in the next decade or so. They are however very much enjoying the opportunity to piss on America’s chips, cause lots of inconvenience and arguments in NATO, and generally make-believe that they’re an actual major power rather than a rapidly deteriorating second-world shithole that every day looks more like Pakistan with pots of oil and a vodka problem. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/6 "2009-07-07T13:04:34Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > The cat is out of the bag and missile defense will be the next big thing once we figure out how to get it to work. Fusion power will be a commercial reality in 30 years. In the meantime, it makes no sense to destroy any chance there may be of limiting mutually beneficial cooperation between the US and Russia on the basis of half baked fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/7 "2009-07-07T16:29:15Z")
I know the Russians have their own missile defense system but like a lot of their aging soviet projects, they cannot afford them and they have now become obsolete. The US’s system is still in its infancy but its in production and will probably be able to shoot down NKorean, Iranian, etc missiles. The US can deploy this technology anywhere in the world once its perfected, thus giving the US and its allies a pretty strong military advantage. Sure, it wont stop WWIII, but it can stop missile strikes, thus turning the billions Iran et al spend on terror missiles into wasted money. Russia doesnt want the US to have this advantage, thus all the cries of “unfair” to the US. [In the meantime we bribe them with aid and they shut up.](http://www.nolanchart.com/article4509.html) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/8 "2009-07-07T17:15:57Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > The US’s system is still in its infancy but its in production and will probably be able to shoot down NKorean… It’s only ‘in production’ because the numbnuts in the last administration decided to skip R&D, and go straight to deployment. Apparently, the theory is that the best way to ensure rational weapons design is to create a massive federal bureaucracy which depends on the funding of a never ending development cycle for its very existence. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/9 "2009-07-07T18:29:05Z")
Did someone really just say ‘terror missiles’? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/10 "2009-07-07T20:09:15Z")
> [@TheMadHun](#): > > And of course there’s the dispute with Georgia. An aggressive dictatorship with an ethnic cleansing agenda, that we somehow got stuck supporting just to spite Russia. Is that right about Georgia? I’ve never heard this before. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/11 "2009-07-07T20:22:47Z")
> [@runcible\_spoon](#): > > Did someone really just say ‘terror missiles’? Yup, but I’m sure that’s just meant to distinguish em from freedom missiles. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/12 "2009-07-07T20:32:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Is that right about Georgia? I’ve never heard this before. Oddly, that is pretty much the party line that the Russians were stating, and those that back them parrot. I have an online friend, her father was a Soviet Officer, and she said that the Georgians are dogs, brutal, etc. etc. I don’t talk with her much. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/13 "2009-07-07T22:22:19Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Yup, but I’m sure that’s just meant to distinguish em from freedom missiles. Where to French missiles fit in? ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/14 "2009-07-08T00:08:57Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Is that right about Georgia? I’ve never heard this before. I don’t know if you can go that far, but South Ossetia (the region that the recent Russia-Georgian conflict was over) isn’t really ethnically “Georgian” at all, and even though was within Georgian borders, was it’s own quasi-autonomous state with heavy Russian ties before Georgia invaded it, which prompted (some would say gave an excuse for) Russia to invade Georgia in turn. The conflict never seemed to be as black and white as some (John Mccain’s “we are all Georgians” speech) made it out to be. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/15 "2009-07-08T00:46:52Z")
> [@TheMadHun](#): > > \*\* OOPS - Please move this to Great Debates. **Moderator’s Note:** Thread liberated from uncultured imperialist General Questions and restored to glorious motherland of Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/16 "2009-07-08T03:16:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Republicans are already demanding that Obama press Russia into allowing a missile defense system in Eastern Europe in return for the U.S. agreeing to reduce its nuclear arsenal to between 1,500 and 1,675 warheads. > > “I don’t want the Russians to get something and we get nothing. I don’t know what we’re getting out of this,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), an influential member of the Armed Services Committee. [Treaty gives GOP weapon](http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/treaty-gives-gop-weapon-2009-07-07.html) ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2009, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/17 "2009-07-08T09:09:08Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Is that right about Georgia? I’ve never heard this before. It is a supposed democracy with all the usual election stealing accusations normal for that part of the world. And it does have an aggressive foreign policy. That’s what caused the recent war - asserting rights over minorities who have not been under its de-facto rule for many decades. Minorities that fought and won a war for their de-facto independence. I’m sure, once history gets a little perspective, we’ll find the bizarre decision to launch an attempt to conquer a South Ossetia protected by Russia was connected with US presidential politics - one of McCain’s advisers having been a lobbyist for them in the past. I’d bet that somewhere along the way something was mistaken for a nod and a wink. It was all too stupid otherwise. Starting a war they simply could not win to conquer people who’d fought to not be ruled by them. Such stupidity deserves a kicking. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/18 "2009-07-09T07:31:26Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > And it does have an aggressive foreign policy. That’s what caused the recent war - asserting rights over minorities who have not been under its de-facto rule for many decades. > > Minorities that fought and won a war for their de-facto independence. That’s not an aggressive foreign policy. That’s trying to put down a rebellion by secessionists. South Ossetia is part of Georgia. It’s been part of Georgia for over a thousand years. Even when Georgia was part of the Russian empire, South Ossetia was administratively ruled with the rest of Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-russia-might-be-right-about-some-things-obama-will-discuss/502102/19 "2009-07-09T16:10:29Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > **Moderator’s Note:** Thread liberated from uncultured imperialist General Questions and restored to glorious motherland of Great Debates. That was pretty funny, comrade.