# Do you think the store needed to apologize? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2011, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599 "2011-11-02T08:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/21 "2011-11-02T15:02:01Z")
I have to wonder whether there was some escalation of the situation that we haven’t heard about. For instance, did the store first just ask her to pay for the sandwich, and she became belligerent for some reason, perhaps thinking that she had indeed paid for the one and forgetting that she ate the other? ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/22 "2011-11-02T15:43:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Seems to me the cops are more to blame than the store. Did the cops have to arrest the couple? Why were they both arrested? Isn’t this a crime commited by one person? Or am I missing something obvious? > [@Scarlett67](#): > > To my mind, that cup holder is for the drink that you bought elsewhere and are bringing into the store with you. I often use it for my Starbucks cup. I doubt that the stores have these cup holders for outside drinks only. I suspect that stores don’t care either way where the drink came from; the cup holders are there to make your trip more enjoyable. They certainly would appreciate any extra sales from drinks consumed while shopping. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/23 "2011-11-02T15:47:53Z")
I’m pretty sure that theft, as a criminal offense, requires intent. So, if they honestly intended to pay, I’m not sure if an offense technically happened. They might be able to “get” her on eating the sandwich BEFORE paying (“uhh yeah officer, I was going to pay a fair rental on that car I borrowed”), but if she had paid I doubt it would be on anyone’s legal radar anyway and I think that there is an implied consent to you taking things off the shelf if you intend to pay for them. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/24 "2011-11-02T15:51:30Z")
Something similar actually happened to me a number of years ago, though it was in a fast food place and not a grocery store. I somehow ended up with my (to go) order in my hands without having paid. I made it to the parking lot and about a mile away before I realized that I never paid (I had no intent to steal the food). I returned and they were able to look up my order in the computer and I paid then and there. No charges and I’m sure I shocked at least one person there by my honesty. ---
**Author:** ![AndyLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@AndyLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyLee)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/25 "2011-11-02T16:09:18Z")
I agree, the manager has to treat it like shoplifting. Then some bozo will come along and say how come certain people get off and others don’t and charge racism or sexism or other things. Also the manager is on tape. Most stores tape every action you make. The security and upper management reviews this and managers get called out and even fired if shrinkage rates are high and theft goes unnoticed. Why should he lose his job? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/26 "2011-11-02T16:22:25Z")
I don’t understand how she forgot to pay for the sandwiches. The wrapper should have been right there in the basket. Is the basket empty? No? Then pay for the stuff in it! Anyway, the article seems to indicate that the store apologized because they felt the taking of the child was disproportionate and ‘a bad thing.’ They don’t apologize for calling the police. They apologize for not realizing the police would have child services take their kid. If the kid wasn’t there, no apology would have been issued. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/27 "2011-11-02T16:24:46Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > It’s pretty obviously illegal. It’s somebody else’s property, and the owner is legally permitted to refuse to sell you the product even after you bring it to the counter. It’s clearly not illegal: > [@](#): > > Takes possession of, carries away, transfers or causes to be carried away or transferred, any merchandise displayed, held, stored or offered for sale in a retail mercantile establishment with the intention of retaining such merchandise or with the intention of depriving the merchant permanently of the possession, use or benefit of such merchandise without paying the full retail value of such merchandise; or [http://www.shopliftingprevention.org/shoplifting-laws/illinois-shoplifting-laws.html](http://www.shopliftingprevention.org/shoplifting-laws/illinois-shoplifting-laws.html) As long as you intend to pay, there is nothing illegal about eating food in a grocery store. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/28 "2011-11-02T16:51:16Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I don’t understand how she forgot to pay for the sandwiches. I suspect it’s because she moved to Hawaii from the mainland 2 weeks before the incident, got lost trying to get a bus to the grocery store, was 30 weeks pregnant and famished, and was dealing with a (likely increasingly cranky) toddler in the cart. These things happen when people are in stressful situations. Hell, when my son was 2, we walked out of Costco without paying for a pineapple. A pineapple, sitting right next to him in the seat, I missed it, my wife missed it, the cashier missed it, the guy checking the receipt missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/29 "2011-11-02T17:02:16Z")
I was raised that you don’t _eat_ at grocery store, unless it’s something like samples being distributed. Eating before paying is stealing. Yet it seems other people think it’s perfectly acceptable. What the hell was wrong with these people that they couldn’t wait until AFTER they were done shopping to eat? What happened to self-control? > [@Dogzilla](#): > > I think the store in this case went a tad overboard. I see no reason the cops needed to be called and the kid taken. It’s a common store policy that the cops are ALWAYS called for shoplifters with _no exceptions_. Why should the lady get a pass because she’s pregnant? Why should her husband (who, if you read the article, was also chowing down) get a pass? I guarantee that if it was a 17 year old black man getting the smackdown for stealing a sandwich no one would blink, even if he WAS a diabetic having a medical emergency. The kid was taken because it is common policy to have child welfare see to the kid when both parents are arrested - would you prefer they just leave the kid on the street? Don’t want your kid taken? Try not stealing food. > [@](#): > > That’s a bit over the top. Why couldn’t the store just let them pay and then let them go on their way? No, it’s not over the top. When someone burgles a house why don’t we just let them put the stuff they took back and let them go on their way? When someone robs a bank why don’t we just let them put the money back and go on their way? Shoplifting is theft. I am skeptical this is _just_ an honest mistake - I have to wonder if they often steal food at the store and they just got caught this time. I think they’re spoiled, selfish brats (the parents - I have no idea what the kid is like) with an appalling lack of self-discipline and self-control. Maybe I’m just tired of going to the store and seeing open packages on the shelf, or half-bare bunches of grapes or other signs of “grazing.” ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/30 "2011-11-02T17:04:27Z")
I’m at a bit of a loss to understand just how two people can “forget” to pay for a couple of meals they just consumed in a place where that’s not normal behavior. My strong suspicion is that they thought they could get away with it and, at worse, have to plead it was unintentional and pony up. I’m also disturbed they’re now considering suing the place that provided a service to them which they then abused. The store did not take their baby from them. It did nothing to provoke the incident through either maliciousness or oversight. Yeah, if Safeway wants an unfortunate public relations issue to go away then they would do well to apologize, this though despite the fact none of this can be blamed on anyone but the offending couple. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/31 "2011-11-02T17:08:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I was raised that you don’t _eat_ at grocery store, unless it’s something like samples being distributed. Eating before paying is stealing. Yet it seems other people think it’s perfectly acceptable. > > What the hell was wrong with these people that they couldn’t wait until AFTER they were done shopping to eat? What happened to self-control? I do it all the time - with a soda. I shop pretty much always on Sundays with a hangover usually. I find the caffeine in my Diet Dew makes me a much less cranky person. The first time I did it I asked a store employee if there was a problem and he said there wasn’t. So now I do it most of the times I am in the store. I always pay for it though. I do understand how people can forget to pay for things - I have done that recently with a greetings card at Target. I put it in the kiddy seat area of the cart because I didn’t want it creased, and realized when I got to my car I hadn’t put it on the counter to be scanned. So I loaded my car and went back in to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/32 "2011-11-02T17:10:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Seems to me the cops are more to blame than the store. Did the cops have to arrest the couple? > [@CaveMike](#): > > Why were they both arrested? Isn’t this a crime commited by one person? Or am I missing something obvious? Re-read the article. There were two sandwiches eaten, one by Pregnant Lady and one by Sperm Donor. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I suspect it’s because she moved to Hawaii from the mainland 2 weeks before the incident, got lost trying to get a bus to the grocery store, was 30 weeks pregnant and famished, and was dealing with a (likely increasingly cranky) toddler in the cart. Boo-fucking-hoo. Look, I know pregnancy does weird stuff to women, but MOST women can manage to get through it, with or without additional toddler(s) in tow, without stealing. Could it have been an honest mistake? Sure. Running a red light can be an honest mistake, too, but if you get caught you don’t get off the hook. Mistakes can have consequences. But, you know, after the third time this week someone at the shop I work at started to wander off and said “oh, sorry, I forgot…” I get a little tired and skeptical of the excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/33 "2011-11-02T17:12:21Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I do it all the time - with a soda. I shop pretty much always on Sundays with a hangover usually. I find the caffeine in my Diet Dew makes me a much less cranky person. The first time I did it I asked a store employee if there was a problem and he said there wasn’t. So now I do it most of the times I am in the store. So, fine - why can’t you pay for the soda FIRST, _then_ do your shopping? That way you won’t forget to pay at the end. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/34 "2011-11-02T17:13:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So, fine - why can’t you pay for the soda FIRST, _then_ do your shopping? That way you won’t forget to pay at the end. I could, but asked and was told it wasn’t a problem. I choose not to stand in line twice. If the store doesn’t have an issue with it, and I have never forgotten to pay for it, why would you? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/35 "2011-11-02T17:18:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Eating before paying is stealing. No, it’s not. Eating without intending to pay is stealing. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/36 "2011-11-02T17:18:57Z")
I’m surprised at the amount of people who agree with the OP. If you ever do something absentminded, like leave a grocery store with soda in the bottom of your cart, I hope you get prosecuted and your _child is removed from your home_. (No, not really. But come ON.) This has happened to me before. I have had something in the very bottom or something stuck in the cart somewhere and was like, “Oh crap! Hold on!” and had the cashier ring it up. I didn’t do it on purpose, but gosh, accidents happen. I remember when I was a kid, my mom had laundry detergent in the bottom of the cart. Forgot to put it on the checkstand. She was extremely sheepish, but she went back and paid for it properly. I remember how that stuck with me – money was always such a HUGE issue for her, but she still wouldn’t steal, even if she could get away with it like that. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/37 "2011-11-02T17:20:20Z")
Considering filing a lawsuit is one thing; actually filing it is another. I somehow can’t see the store being held responsible for having policies against shoplifting - and following them. Intentional or not, they stole the food. The police had no choice regarding the child. It’s regrettable, but the fault isn’t with the store or the police. The blame rests entirely with the people who ate something and didn’t pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/38 "2011-11-02T17:21:01Z")
> [@treis](#): > > No, it’s not. Eating without intending to pay is stealing. Otherwise restaurants are dangerous places of entrapment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/39 "2011-11-02T17:27:49Z")
If she left without paying, she shoplifted. I do not understand how she hopes to have any standing to file a suit against the store. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/40 "2011-11-02T17:29:09Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > It wouldn’t occur to me either but on occasion I do see someone drinking out of a bottle of soda and paying on the way out. Hell, some grocery store baskets even have cup holders. My first stop each time I grocery shop is the fountain soda self serve to get a soda to sip while I shop. It would never occur to me to get in line, pay for it and then go back and do my shopping. I doubt Publix has a problem with this. The cashier just scans the cup and hands it back to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599.md?page=3)