# Do you think the store needed to apologize? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2011, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599 "2011-11-02T08:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/41 "2011-11-02T17:29:16Z")
I have forgotten to pay for things in my cart or basket, and on rare occasions have opened a package or a drink in the store. It’s never been a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/42 "2011-11-02T17:29:44Z")
While I don’t think she has a successful basis for a law suit (though she certainly has standing), to say she shoplifted isn’t necessarily correct. I assume there is a scienter element of shoplifting - it isn’t a strict liability crime. That doesn’t mean the store was wrong in calling the police, but it also doesn’t mean she stole anything. ETA - Response to post #39… ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/43 "2011-11-02T17:33:04Z")
I think it could have been handled by simply reminding them to pay. However, the people who eat grapes at safeway should be prosecuted, and those who read the magazines in the checkout line without intending to buy them. They’re the worst. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/44 "2011-11-02T17:36:18Z")
Clearly grocery stores need scales at the entrance so every shopper can be weighed as they come in and then they won’t be denied masticulatory access to food items that are sold by the pound. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/45 "2011-11-02T17:37:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I was raised that you don’t _eat_ at grocery store, unless it’s something like samples being distributed. Eating before paying is stealing. Yet it seems other people think it’s perfectly acceptable. > > What the hell was wrong with these people that they couldn’t wait until AFTER they were done shopping to eat? What happened to self-control? > It’s a common store policy that the cops are ALWAYS called for shoplifters with _no exceptions_. Why should the lady get a pass because she’s pregnant? Why should her husband (who, if you read the article, was also chowing down) get a pass? I guarantee that if it was a 17 year old black man getting the smackdown for stealing a sandwich no one would blink, even if he WAS a diabetic having a medical emergency. > > The kid was taken because it is common policy to have child welfare see to the kid when both parents are arrested - would you prefer they just leave the kid on the street? Don’t want your kid taken? Try not stealing food. > No, it’s not over the top. When someone burgles a house why don’t we just let them put the stuff they took back and let them go on their way? When someone robs a bank why don’t we just let them put the money back and go on their way? Shoplifting is theft. > > I am skeptical this is _just_ an honest mistake - I have to wonder if they often steal food at the store and they just got caught this time. I think they’re spoiled, selfish brats (the parents - I have no idea what the kid is like) with an appalling lack of self-discipline and self-control. > > Maybe I’m just tired of going to the store and seeing open packages on the shelf, or half-bare bunches of grapes or other signs of “grazing.” My sentiments exactly. The only reason this even made the news was the woman was white with a photogenic brat. And I really doubt it was an “honest” mistake either. I just forgot to pay is straight out of Shoplifting 101 ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/46 "2011-11-02T17:39:26Z")
The chain of events that happened at that grocery store is so absurd that yes, the couple was owed an aplogy. Safeway PR has owned up to that. The cops should probably apologize, too, for their equally stupid behavior. I mean, an onsite search and taking their child for 18 hours because they forgot to pay for a sandwich? After they already paid for $50 worth of groceries? Is no one able to use their own descretion? The cops had no choice? Uh, yes they did. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/47 "2011-11-02T17:44:38Z")
Saying that the woman made the news only because she’s white is just…wrong. Why fault her for her skin color? Isn’t that kind of backwards? Or is it okay to call her child a ‘brat’ and insinuate she’s a privileged spoiled thief because she’s _white_? If this had been a black mom, would you be up in arms about what Safeway did? Maybe she’s on the news because the whole thing is BS. It would seem to me that in some areas, eating before paying is allowed and practiced. No need to get all regional or cultural-centric on people and call them thieves. Clearly what one does in an Albertson’s in one place [isn’t kosher in another](http://consumerist.com/2007/10/dont-eat-jellybeans-at-albertsons-or-you-will-be-arrested.html). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/48 "2011-11-02T17:46:12Z")
I believe that, whether she would win or not, it would cost Safeway a lot more money and bad publicity to fight this. Seeing as this became a story, and Safeway actually felt they had to apologize, it’s clear that the majority of people think this was unfair, so any jury would likely find for her. So there’s not even the advantage of sending a message to wannabe shoplifters. And all of this could have been avoided by having a more rational shoplifting policy. Ask them to pay, perhaps even with a fee–even actual shoplifters would likely do this. (And if they don’t, you detain them and call the police). Then you forbid them from coming back in the store for a period of time. Same deterrent effect, no horrible publicity after the fact. Leaving your own good name in the hands of other people is stupid. Thus getting the police involved when you don’t have to is stupid. As for my opinion, I don’t care if there was actual shoplifting or not (although I suspect not). The punishment did not fit the alleged crime. I mean, I wouldn’t even call the police if someone stole $5 from me, and I’m rather poor and am rather morally strict. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/49 "2011-11-02T17:46:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Look, I know pregnancy does weird stuff to women, but MOST women can manage to get through it, with or without additional toddler(s) in tow, without stealing. Theft is a crime of intent, if you didn’t intend to take the property without paying, it isn’t theft. Even if MOST people can manage without screwing up, some people do. Frankly, the correct response to a screwup isn’t always to throw people in the pokey. Sometimes, you can just ask them to pay for the missed item, note their names and vitals, knowing that you can put the screws to them if they do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/50 "2011-11-02T17:47:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I was raised that you don’t _eat_ at grocery store, unless it’s something like samples being distributed. Eating before paying is stealing. Yet it seems other people think it’s perfectly acceptable. > > What the hell was wrong with these people that they couldn’t wait until AFTER they were done shopping to eat? What happened to self-control? > \ I don’t know, that was pretty much the point of the rest of my post, but somehow you managed to take two sentences out of all that and make it seems like I want to give the poor pregnant lady a pass. That is not what I was trying to say. I was trying to say what you said, only I don’t see why the store didn’t just let the people pay. But still. There’s no reason, really, to eat in the store. It’s like when I see someone in the produce section walk past the grapes, pinch one off and pop it in their mouth on their way to the broccoli. That’s a stolen grape. Call the cops. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/51 "2011-11-02T17:49:00Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Clearly grocery stores need scales at the entrance so every shopper can be weighed as they come in and then they won’t be denied masticulatory access to food items that are sold by the pound. Will the difference be surgically removed? 😉 And what if you use the bathroom? Will the store owe you money? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/52 "2011-11-02T17:57:20Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Saying that the woman made the news only because she’s white is just…wrong. Why fault her for her skin color? Isn’t that kind of backwards? Or is it okay to call her child a ‘brat’ and insinuate she’s a privileged spoiled thief because she’s _white_? If this had been a black mom, would you be up in arms about what Safeway did? > > Maybe she’s on the news because the whole thing is BS. > > It would seem to me that in some areas, eating before paying is allowed and practiced. No need to get all regional or cultural-centric on people and call them thieves. Clearly what one does in an Albertson’s in one place [isn’t kosher in another](http://consumerist.com/2007/10/dont-eat-jellybeans-at-albertsons-or-you-will-be-arrested.html). I happen to think Safeway did the right thing and shouldn’t apologize. If this had been a Black, Latino, Poor White, or Roma mother far fewer (if any people outside her minority group) would be rushing to defend her. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/53 "2011-11-02T18:00:16Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > I don’t know, that was pretty much the point of the rest of my post, but somehow you managed to take two sentences out of all that and make it seems like I want to give the poor pregnant lady a pass. That is not what I was trying to say. I was trying to say what you said, only I don’t see why the store didn’t just let the people pay. But still. There’s no reason, really, to eat in the store. It’s like when I see someone in the produce section walk past the grapes, pinch one off and pop it in their mouth on their way to the broccoli. That’s a stolen grape. Call the cops. Nah, just do it the Lisa Simpson way. Point at the offender and shriek, “THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!” and then ask them to ring up two grapes when they go to pay. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/54 "2011-11-02T18:17:36Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I happen to think Safeway did the right thing and shouldn’t apologize. If this had been a Black, Latino, Poor White, or Roma mother far fewer (if any people outside her minority group) would be rushing to defend her. It doesn’t matter. Just because the same principle _may_ not be applied to minority groups, it doesn’t mean the unnecessary prosecution of a white woman is okay. And I have a feeling Dopers would be extremely sympathetic to the black woman giving her daughter a couple of grapes at Safeway versus this. Or even being in the same situation. Gosh, can you imagine if Michelle Obama were arrested for this same thing? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/55 "2011-11-02T18:22:34Z")
I don’t see how an “offer to pay if you get caught” policy is going to work to discourage shoplifting. A shoplifter will just try to steal as much as he thinks he can get away with. If he succeeds, he got the stuff free. If he fails, he just pays what he should have paid in the first place and then tries again tomorrow. I also understand why a store is going to set a universal policy on how all shoplifters will be treated. If you allow the manager to use his discretion you’re going to have complaints about who he decides to let go and who he decides to press charges against. It’s better to treat every shoplifter who’s caught equally. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/56 "2011-11-02T18:28:40Z")
There doesn’t seem to be a universal policy. Like other posters have mentioned, they’ve done it or seen it done. I shop at Safeway and I’ve yet to see someone get busted for eating a grape. Or even opening a soda. Finally, you forget the intent part – if it’s custom somewhere to allow this, how the hell are you going to call it stealing? There’s no sign. What’s social norm in one spot isn’t in another. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/57 "2011-11-02T18:29:03Z")
The couple’s behavior was perfectly justified. If you’re pregnant the cravings have to be satisfied _right this second_, otherwise you’ll explode and there’ll be a helluva mess in aisle #3. And if you grab and eat a sandwich, your husband can hardly resist doing likewise, now can he? And of course paying for the rest of your groceries should absolve you anyway. As long as they were buying _something_, that makes it OK to steal items of lesser value. > [@](#): > > “I didn’t know it was such a taboo thing,” she said. “Where I grew up in a small town it’s not seen as stealing for sure.” What small towns have this generalized policy of allowing shoplifting, as opposed to the cold-hearted superstores of big cities? My memories of shopping in small towns gave me the impression that customers were often viewed as incipient criminals, to the point where they’d actually follow you around if you got out of sight of the counter area. \*if anyone is to blame in the OP’s scenario (aside from the Clueless Munchers) it’s the authorities who decided to involve CPS, not Safeway. I like the idea that stores will be consistent in combatting theft and not expecting me to pay higher prices, to avoid the possibility that a few of their thieving customers will get all offended at being caught. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/58 "2011-11-02T18:31:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see how an “offer to pay if you get caught” policy is going to work to discourage shoplifting. A shoplifter will just try to steal as much as he thinks he can get away with. If he succeeds, he got the stuff free. If he fails, he just pays what he should have paid in the first place and then tries again tomorrow. > > I also understand why a store is going to set a universal policy on how all shoplifters will be treated. If you allow the manager to use his discretion you’re going to have complaints about who he decides to let go and who he decides to press charges against. It’s better to treat every shoplifter who’s caught equally. I agree with this. This couple would not want me on the jury if they decide to sue. Not only would they not win, I’d fine them for a frivolous lawsuit if I could. And I could care less what race they are. My answer would be the same regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/59 "2011-11-02T18:42:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I also understand why a store is going to set a universal policy on how all shoplifters will be treated. If you allow the manager to use his discretion you’re going to have complaints about who he decides to let go and who he decides to press charges against. It’s better to treat every shoplifter who’s caught equally. I somehow doubt that if it was the manager’s wife who forgot to pay for a sandwich he totally would have called the cops. Even if the manager \*does \*have to follow procedure, the cops certainly can use a little common sense. The person paid for all other groceries. The person had the wrapper available for the purpose of paying for it. Taking the child into custody was a completely stupid move. All that said, I do not think the couple should sue. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599/60 "2011-11-02T18:42:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see how an “offer to pay if you get caught” policy is going to work to discourage shoplifting. A shoplifter will just try to steal as much as he thinks he can get away with. If he succeeds, he got the stuff free. If he fails, he just pays what he should have paid in the first place and then tries again tomorrow. This is the point where I feel compelled to suggest that store managers aren’t brain dead morons. They might, just might, be able to distinguish between a family who ate a sandwich and forgot about it on the checkout line, and a guy who is trying to steal as much as he possibly can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-the-store-needed-to-apologize/601599.md?page=4)