# do you think they realize what they look like? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 24, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456 "2009-05-24T12:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/21 "2009-05-25T00:49:47Z")
I’ll be the defender… The middle one suffers from some kind of mental illness. Yeah, she’s to’ up from the flo’ up, but that’s what you get when you have a ton of money and a ton of neuroses. Except for the scary sinewy arms and the dead eyes, Madonna doesn’t look _too_ bad for a rock star. Not everyone can be a Tina Turner. As as far as Courtney Love goes, she’s a victim of drug abuse and body dysmorphia. Don’t know why she can’t lay out in the sun for a few minutes, though. Maybe she’s a vampire? That explains all the red on her lips. So, yeah. They’re hideous. But they’re doing the best they can. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/22 "2009-05-25T01:16:11Z")
Madonna’s personality makes her ugly anyway, but I’ve found her physically unattractive since the mid-90s or so. It’s not getting old or working out that’s doing it to her, it’s her face and overall Madonnaness Jocelyn Wildenstein is mentally ill. Not going to make fun of that. Courtney Love is probably mentally ill too. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/23 "2009-05-25T01:25:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally Posted by Alec Wildenstein > She seems to think that you fix a face the same way you fix a house. > \* I’d sue the living shit out of any contractor who did that to my house! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/24 "2009-05-25T02:31:52Z")
See, I like Madonna’s muscles. She’s a bit odd, but I think she’s a really good-looking woman. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/25 "2009-05-25T03:00:18Z")
[http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/women-bodybuilders.html](http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/women-bodybuilders.html) These might be debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/26 "2009-05-25T03:03:44Z")
[This picture](http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200808/r285247_1215378.jpg) of Madonna is from the same concert and I reckon she looks fantastic. I think the first picture is mainly an unfortunate shot, though I do agree that society generally expects a “softer” appearance, especially from people Madonna’s age. From what I’ve read she goes to much more effort than I can fathom to keep her hardbody but count me as someone who loves the look. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/27 "2009-05-25T03:32:50Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/women-bodybuilders.html](http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/women-bodybuilders.html) > These might be debatable. The giant noses, lips, and chins. These are not the result of muscle development. These gals are taking hormones, juicing, and Og knows what other shit. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/28 "2009-05-25T04:48:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I don’t think that Madge looks so bad. > > That said, I probably am in denial about how\*\* I \*\*look. She is obviously in great shape, but sleeveless tops are not a good look for her any more. And she might want to dial back on the Eyes by Racoon ™. Maybe the poster-maker was taking a shot at the weird top hat as well. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/29 "2009-05-25T05:02:20Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > So? I think it is extremely unkind to mock people because of physical appearances exacerbated by unflattering photography. Of course it’s unkind. So what’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/30 "2009-05-25T05:23:43Z")
Seeing muscles on a woman, is kind of like seeing tits and hips on a guy. A little disconcerting, and for me, anyway, a total turnoff. Being fit and toned is a completely different story, but don’t confuse muscle mass with being healthy. As for the shot of Madonna in the OP, it’s not so much the sinewy muscles, as it is the sickly veins that creep around it. ::shivver:: ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/31 "2009-05-25T05:27:51Z")
Also, I don’t care who you are, [this is funny.](http://forums.utaclan.com/images/pics/jocelyn-wildenstein.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/32 "2009-05-25T05:36:36Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Of course it’s unkind. So what’s your point? Lost on you. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/33 "2009-05-25T05:48:36Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Jocelyn Wildstein (and I’m appalled I have her name on the tip of my tongue) – the most famous plastic surgery victim in America. Her husband left her for a younger woman – you see the result. LOL, I thought it was that guy that used plastic surgery to make himself look like a cat. I was wondering where the long hair came from! ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/34 "2009-05-25T07:26:50Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > The giant noses, lips, and chins. These are not the result of muscle development. These gals are taking hormones, juicing, and Og knows what other shit. After reading your post I went back and looked. The first 4 pictures (and several others) all had Jay Leno chins. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/35 "2009-05-25T08:48:17Z")
> [@Kayeby](#): > > [This picture](http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200808/r285247_1215378.jpg) of Madonna is from the same concert and I reckon she looks fantastic. That is retouched to hell, I think. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/36 "2009-05-25T11:35:49Z")
How is commenting on a person’s appearance automatically a value judgement or a case of mocking? Yeah, if you say “From that photo, he/she’s obviously a child-molesting puppy kicker who won’t call Mom…” But saying “She looks hideous” or “He looks like he’s on death’s door” are merely expressions of opinions. When I saw the second photo, my reaction was one of horror. I don’t need to know anything about the person or her life to say that the picture looks awful and wonder what the deal is. Knowing more about her life doesn’t change my opinion - I still think it’s a hideous photo. And I never much liked Madonna anyway, so I don’t have any problem snerking at her picture. But yeah, they’re all precious and special, just like everybody else… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/37 "2009-05-25T12:56:57Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/women-bodybuilders.html](http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/women-bodybuilders.html) > These might be debatable. A few of them look fine to me. Others look like photoshopped Stretch Armstrong toys. The second-to-last one looks like she plans to eat your heart. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/38 "2009-05-25T13:03:05Z")
There are several sites comparing Madonna to the Crypt Keeper. > **[Celebuzz](https://www.celebuzz.com/)** > > Celebuzz Nowif I were to make a guess, I would say that there’s more to her condition than doing a lot of pilates. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/39 "2009-05-25T13:15:57Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > A few of them look fine to me. Others look like photoshopped Stretch Armstrong toys. The second-to-last one looks like she plans to eat your heart. I find a few of them genuinely attractive. Muscles (and tattoos) on women used to bother me, but then I grew up and got over it. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456/40 "2009-05-25T13:55:18Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > But yeah, they’re all precious and special, just like everybody else… :rolleyes: Yeah, actually, they **are** all precious and special. Since you don’t have a problem with ‘expressions of opinions’ why don’t you post some photos of yourself and let us find an unflattering one to comment on. That would be perfectly fine, right? Or is it different because the others are _celebrities_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-they-realize-what-they-look-like/497456.md?page=3)