# Do you think this Presidency has been the U.S.A's worst ever!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533 "2004-07-17T02:22:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/41 "2004-07-17T17:45:28Z")
Again, what _should_ he have done? Please be more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/42 "2004-07-17T17:46:56Z")
> [@Milroyj](#): > > Obviously, the Clinton Administration policy of treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue (capture and convict terrorists after the fact) did us a world of good in terms of preventing 9/11. Aside from not answering Revtim’s question, that is an unfair snipe at Clinton. Neither Clinton nor Bush ignored intelligence that only in retrospect pointed to 9/11. But Clinton’s method is far preferable to Bush’s. What Bush did is ethically equivalent to what Bin Laden did — random slaughter for political expedience. ---
**Author:** ![Batsinma\_Belfry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@Batsinma\_Belfry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batsinma_Belfry)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/43 "2004-07-17T17:49:04Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Obviously, the Clinton Administration policy of treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue (capture and convict terrorists after the fact) did us a world of good in terms of preventing 9/11. He had no way of knowing his actions would be ineffective. OTOH, Bush was warned there would be a 9/11, and still chose not to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![Legolamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@Legolamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolamb)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/44 "2004-07-17T19:04:19Z")
> [@hillbilly queen](#): > > Then you’ve been doing them wrong. 😃 In all seriousness, from the perspective of someone who lived in an entirely different country at the time, Clinton did a great job as president. In fact despite the lies over it, the whole Monicagate episode gave me a whole new respect for him - finally a president who was human! 😉 > [@milroyj](#): > > Obviously, the Clinton Administration policy of treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue (capture and convict terrorists after the fact) did us a world of good in terms of preventing 9/11. That’s a ridiculous strawman, **milroy**. Just answer the fucking question. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/45 "2004-07-17T19:15:48Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Again, what _should_ he have done? Please be more specific. He should have gone after the Al-Queda training camps more vigorously than bombing an aspirin factory in the Sudan and lobbing a few cruise missiles into the Afghan desert (during the impeachment proceedings, natch). His administration should not have erected a barrier to prevent the various intelligence and law enforcement agencies from sharing information. Organizations that funneled money to terrorist organizations should have had their assets frozen long before Sept. 2001. There’s three things, for starters. I realize this is all armchair-quarterbacking. But the problem with terrorists who are willing to die for their cause, whether it’s suicide bombers in Israel or the 9/11 hijackers, is that the usual law enforcement approach of catching the bad guys (after the fact), trying them, and putting them in jail, is, by definition, impossible. A proactive approach, even a preemptive one, is necessary. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/46 "2004-07-17T19:22:50Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What Bush did is ethically equivalent to what Bin Laden did — random slaughter for political expedience. How was the Iraq war politically expedient for Bush? He may very well lose the election because of it. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/47 "2004-07-17T19:30:49Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > How was the Iraq war politically expedient for Bush? He may very well lose the election because of it. If he does finally [lose] it’s only because he ‘misunderstimated’ the American public – i.e. he thought they were all as stupid as you. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/48 "2004-07-17T20:06:34Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > How was the Iraq war politically expedient for Bush? He may very well lose the election because of it. Yes, but he rode the wave while it lasted. He was as clueless about the war as his father was about the economy. Americans always will cheer for their troops and will back their commander-in-chief in times of war so long as they believe the cause is just. But when the major ops are over, they will require an accounting, and in this instance, Bush came up short. It was an unjustified invasion based on the flimsiest of evidence against a sovereign nation that had harmed no American citizen. When the people were quickly conquered, the place was in chaos. The only good to come out of it at all was the unseating of Saddam Hussein, something which could have been accomplished by an executive order and the dispatch of special forces. If he loses because of the war, it is because he ties himself inextricably to it — the War President — and like any indignant criminal continues to show no remorse or admit any mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/49 "2004-07-17T20:10:01Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > He should have gone after the Al-Queda training camps more vigorously … > A proactive approach, even a preemptive one, is necessary. Does this mean that in your judgement Clinton should have invaded Afghanistan and the Sudan? What preparation of the American public would have been necessary to get ready for that? You will recall that the American intervention in Afghanistan post 9/11 followed a groundswell of opinion that the Taliban regime had to be removed by force of arms if AlQaida was going to be naturalized. Was there any such ground swell following the WTC bombing, following the attacks on the African embassies, following the USS Cole attack? I don’t recall one. You will also recall that support for the invasion of Iraq was generated by raising the specter of a Iraq–AlQaida partnership and the near certainty that Iraq was or already had armed AlQaida with unconventional weapons capable of causing massive destruction and vast loss of life. At the time all that propaganda campaign was going on responsible people on these boards were pointing out the weakness of the evidence supporting the conclusions that Iraq was threatening or in bed with Osama. Be specific. What should Clinton have done? ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/50 "2004-07-17T21:05:47Z")
> [@](#): > > But personally I’m going to rank Nixon #1 for worst Presidential sin - he used the powers of his office to influence his own re-election. That’s the kind of thing that leads to “President for Life” scenarios. It’s the unwritten first law of seperation of powers - Presidents must keep their personal desire to get re-elected seperate from their professional duties to serve the country. W hasn’t done that _yet_. There’s the whole scandal involving the Florida vote counting in his first election, so I won’t be surprised if his administration actually does some kind of ‘dirty tricks’ to fraudulently win the election this year. I still wouldn’t say W has been the worst president yet either. He has Nixon, Jackson, Grant, Van Buren, both Johnsons and Harding to compete with for that honor. That doesn’t mean that I want another 4 years under the puppet of Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney and the big corporations. I’d like to get rid of him & have a different set of big corporations’ puppet from across the aisle sit in the white house for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/51 "2004-07-17T21:09:40Z")
> [@stockton](#): > > Let’s not forget: eleven years in the Navy and a nuke tech to boot. Yeah, but like Dubya, Carter insisted on pronouncing it “NUKE-U-LAR”. 😉 (Still, I’d take Carter any day.) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/52 "2004-07-17T21:23:27Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Yeah, but like Dubya, Carter insisted on pronouncing it “NUKE-U-LAR”. 😉 And Carter did graduate work at Union College in reactor technology and nuclear physics! I guess pronunciation wasn’t a focus… I have to admit, I have to force myself to NOT say nuke-u-lar. I have no idea how I got that one into me. Maybe from listening to Carter on TV when I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/53 "2004-07-17T21:49:59Z")
> [@hillbilly queen](#): > > What exactly did Clinton do that made him a bad president? He improved the United States domestically and internationally, all without a little “Republican” next to his name on the ballot. As for **milroyj’s** silly assertion that Clinton didn’t do anything against terrorism, [read this.](http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/10/30/135644/95) ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/54 "2004-07-17T22:30:29Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > He improved the United States domestically and internationally, all without a little “Republican” next to his name on the ballot. He did? How? By ignoring every terrorist attack that occured on his watch? By his “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy? By signing the DOMA? By signing the largest tax increase in history? Yep, that Bill, he was just a peach. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/55 "2004-07-17T22:37:32Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > He did? How? By ignoring every terrorist attack that occured on his watch? By his “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy? By signing the DOMA? **By signing the largest tax increase in history**? > > Yep, that Bill, he was just a peach. Oh please…look up facts before you open your mouth. Oh that’s right…you just post the pubbie line don’t you. > [@](#): > > A tax increase in 1942 boosted federal revenues by 71%, for example, as the US geared up for war after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Measured in inflation-adjusted 1992 dollars, Roosevelt’s wartime increase amounted to $73 billion a year, while Clinton’s increase averaged $35 billion a year (average for the first two years.) [http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?DocID=173](http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?DocID=173) ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/56 "2004-07-17T22:42:13Z")
So why did Clinton increase taxes by $35 billion when there wasn’t a war? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/57 "2004-07-17T22:49:54Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > So why did Clinton increase taxes by $35 billion when there wasn’t a war? Why did Reagan raise taxes when there was no war? > [@](#): > > But Ronald Reagan does hold a special place in the annals of tax policy, and not just as the patron saint of tax cuts. To his credit, he was more pragmatic and responsible than that; He followed his huge 1981 tax cut with two large tax increases. In fact, no peacetime president has raised taxes so much on so many people. This is not a criticism: the tale of those increases tells you a lot about what was right with Reagan’s leadership, and what’s wrong with the leadership of George W. Bush. > > The first Reagan tax increase came in 1982. By then it was clear that the budget projections used to justify the 1981 tax cut were wildly optimistic. In response, Reagan agreed to a sharp rollback of corporate tax cuts, and a smaller rollback of individual income tax cuts. Overall, the 1982 tax increase undid about a third of the 1981 cut; as a share of GDP, the increase was substantially larger than Clinton’s 1993 tax increase. > **[The San Diego Union-Tribune - San Diego, California & National News](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/)** You are an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/58 "2004-07-17T22:51:48Z")
Yes, for heaven’s sake. Why should we _ever_ have to shell out tax money for anything but defense? God forbid we should actively have a government that helps people! Silly liberals. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/59 "2004-07-17T22:56:27Z")
> [@AvhHines](#): > > Yes, for heaven’s sake. Why should we _ever_ have to shell out tax money for anything but defense? God forbid we should actively have a government that helps people! > > Silly liberals. :rolleyes: The government doesn’t exist to help people. People need to grow a pair, and help themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/60 "2004-07-17T23:01:41Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > The government doesn’t exist to help people. People need to grow a pair, and help themselves. Read with me idiot…if you can… We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, **promote the general Welfare** , and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Understand now? Of course you don’t. Because you are an idiot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533.md?page=4)