# Do you think this Presidency has been the U.S.A's worst ever!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533 "2004-07-17T02:22:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/121 "2004-07-18T21:00:36Z")
Oh, Holy Shit! I completely missread **AvhHines** post, she was, in fact, heaping scorn on a position not her own! Wrong, wrong, and again, wrong. _Mea shitwit_ I go now to the river, to perform the Ancient Tasmanian Ritual of Self-Abasement, accompanied by a Chorus of Bitter Virgins, intoning dirges of Woe and Humiliation! ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/122 "2004-07-18T21:00:36Z")
I notice the **idiot** again ignored the questions put to him. Why is that **milroyj**? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/123 "2004-07-18T21:12:33Z")
> [@AvhHines](#): > > How dare evil people patronize you by asking you to pay to prevent ignorance, illness, or starvation? Nah, I’m not worried about evil people patronizing me, but heaven help those who fall into the clutches of the Nanny State. The Nanny State will happily tell you where to live, what to eat, where you can go to school, how to raise your kids, and even how fast you can drive. (and don’t forget to wear your seatbelt :rolleyes: ) No, thanks. [Greta Garbo]I vant to be left alone[/Greta Garbo] ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/124 "2004-07-18T21:14:20Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I notice the **idiot** again ignored the questions put to him. > > Why is that **milroyj**? Sorry I don’t post on your schedule. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/125 "2004-07-18T21:27:17Z")
> [@AvhHines](#): > > the right thing morally, how about the idea that by providing health care, we prevent infectious disease. Ever read about the plague? The miracle is that we haven’t had one in recent years. I work for a pharmacutical company. My beliefs on health care really require a whoe different thread. Trust me, I know plenty about the plague, I minored in Medieval Studies. 🆒 > [@](#): > > How about the idea that, by seeing that our poor are in a position to get a _good_ education and become comfortable economically, we not only retain our competitive edge with the rest of the world, but we expand our domestic markets? I think most everybody is in a position to get a good education in this country, but many don’t take advantage of it. Or help their kids take advantage of it. > [@](#): > > And, btw, I’m not asking for those for whom extra taxes would make the difference between comfort and poverty to pay more. I’m asking for those whole earnings are six figures plus to pay more. They are the ones who have benefited the most from all this country has had to offer (including significant infra-structure, for which we have all paid!), and with the exception of the very lowest tax bracket, they are the ones who got far and away the largest tax cut from W percentage-wise as well as the more obvious dollar-wise. And they are the ones that paid and pay the most. Maybe a few less subsidies might seperate the wheat from the chaff. > [@](#): > > THe fact is, if everyone pays a little, it is bearable for all. If no one must pay, few people will. Private charities are all very well, but really what you’re saying is “let the other guy worry about it.” Ever read Dickens? Try Oliver Twist. There’s your liberatarian dream. Uhhh, I’m not a libertarian nor do I have dreams of such. At least none where I was wearing pants. > [@](#): > > The crux of the matter? The crux of the matter is “how dare you take any of my money?” You can dress it up in ideology all you want, but that’s what it boils down to in the end. There is no liberty, no right more precious than holding on to every cent, no matter how desperate those in need. Otherwise, how could _any_one who calls himself a libertarian even consider voting for an adminstration that includes John Ashcroft, grand inquisitor wanna-be? Grand Inquisitor? Sheesh, must everyone go off the deep end? Are you sure that **milroyj’s** or my belief is “how dare you take any of my money”? Are you positive? I’m sure you’d never jump to conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/126 "2004-07-18T21:27:49Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Nah, I’m not worried about evil people patronizing me, but heaven help those who fall into the clutches of the Nanny State. The Nanny State will happily tell you where to live, what to eat, where you can go to school, how to raise your kids, and even how fast you can drive. (and don’t forget to wear your seatbelt :rolleyes: ) > > No, thanks. > > [Greta Garbo]I vant to be left alone[/Greta Garbo] Your driving speed affects me. As does your death, if I am involved in an accident with you and you die because you weren’t wearing your seatbelt. Sorry, **milroy** , but those _aren’t_ your own private business; they impact everyone on the road. Yeah, I’ve noticed how much the Dems want to peek into your bedroom, or tell you how to worship, or demand that you live in a racially divided neighborhood. While the current administration, of course, has _no_ interest in prying into your personal affairs. Unless, of course, you are interested in anything that doesn’t reflect Christian right “family values.” But such people don’t deserve rights anyway, right? But hey, no right is as important as hanging on to every penny, is it? Hey, **elucidator** , instead of spending time with Bitter Virgins, how about helping me out here? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/127 "2004-07-18T21:29:55Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > Does this mean that in your judgement Clinton should have invaded Afghanistan and the Sudan? What preparation of the American public would have been necessary to get ready for that? You will recall that the American intervention in Afghanistan post 9/11 followed a groundswell of opinion that the Taliban regime had to be removed by force of arms if AlQaida was going to be naturalized. Was there any such ground swell following the WTC bombing, following the attacks on the African embassies, following the USS Cole attack? I don’t recall one. > > You will also recall that support for the invasion of Iraq was generated by raising the specter of a Iraq–AlQaida partnership and the near certainty that Iraq was or already had armed AlQaida with unconventional weapons capable of causing massive destruction and vast loss of life. At the time all that propaganda campaign was going on responsible people on these boards were pointing out the weakness of the evidence supporting the conclusions that Iraq was threatening or in bed with Osama. > > Be specific. What should Clinton have done? Assuming a schedule, when do you plan to answer Post #49 from page 1, **milroyj**? Or may we take it that your plan is just to throw out unsubstantiated conclusions and then retreat back into the bushes (ha! A joke?). ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/128 "2004-07-18T21:36:02Z")
We can certainly count on **milroyj** to remain true to form. If you look up the phrase, “a foolish consistency,” there’s a picture of **milroyj**. He’s not haughtily refusing to address the questions others have put to him. He’s just stuck for an answer. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/129 "2004-07-18T21:44:58Z")
The essence of conservative philosophy is this: Social programs in Iraq are good. Corporate welfare and lucrative contracts for corporations are good. Social programs in our own country is evil theft of our hard earned tax dollars. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/130 "2004-07-18T22:01:48Z")
> [@AvhHines](#): > > As does your death, if I am involved in an accident with you and you die because you weren’t wearing your seatbelt. Um, how does my death without a seatbelt affect you? > [@](#): > > Yeah, I’ve noticed how much the Dems want to peek into your bedroom, or tell you how to worship, or demand that you live in a racially divided neighborhood. The Left would rather that no one worship at all. Invisible Pink Unicorns, etc. And it was the Left who forced people into public housing like Cabrini-Green in Chicago. Truly deplorable conditions for the last 40 years. We, as a nation, treat dogs and cats better than that. Now they say it was a “failed social experiment”. I’m betting that the poor people involved didn’t want to be experimented on in the first place. As far as the Christian right goes, I’m not part of that group, so your comment is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/131 "2004-07-18T22:17:45Z")
Your death due to lack of seatbelt causes me psychological trauma that I would not otherwise have, for starters. And if, heaven forbid, the accident was my fault, my liability becomes far worse. But the guilt, the anguish of being the agent of another person’s death, would apply regardless of whether or not it was actually my fault. Individual Democrats have every bit as much right to question Deism (via IPUs or any other mechanism) as you have to believe in it. I have yet to see a Democrat attempt to legislate the nation into atheism, and I think you know it. What civil libertarians of all stripes want to do is to avoid _any_ suggestion or implication of a state religion. Oddly enough, we don’t want the government to tell anyone what to believe, whether or not they might agree with us. Funny how little that seems to bother someone who fears the so-called Nanny-state. No one claims perfection on the part of Dems or the left wing. What we _do_ claim is an honest effort to create a humane society for all our citizens, including those who were stupid enough to have poor parents and receive a lousy education. We don’t always succeed. But we try. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/132 "2004-07-18T22:18:34Z")
He isn’t going to answer, is he? I move that the witness be instructed to answer the question or that he be excused and his testimony stricken. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/133 "2004-07-18T22:32:23Z")
“If it grease the Court, I move that the subpenis be squished, on grounds that he is incomparable, irreverent, and dematerialized, and **Milroyj** be ruled a hostile witless.” “I’ll allow it” ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/134 "2004-07-18T22:49:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “If it grease the Court, I move that the subpenis be squished, on grounds that he is incomparable, irreverent, and dematerialized, and **Milroyj** be ruled a hostile witless.” > > “I’ll allow it” No, I’d like to hear form **Milroyj**. It does no good preaching to the choir. I want to convince or be convinced. I’d like him to explain to me how growing a pair would help a poor single mother who already works as hard as she can to get ahead. I’d like to hear him explain what Clinton _should_ have done to prevent 9/11, or for that matter, how President Bush has helped us be safer, because from where I sit, we’ve eliminated a toothless enemy and created thousands of enthusiastic new potential suicide bombers. I’d like to hear him explain to me how Ashcroft is protecting his civil liberties, while Kerry threatens to take them away. I’d like someone, _any_one, to explain to me how a loving, compassionate person would prefer to see the richest people in the country get a huge reduction in taxes to seeing poor people get some extra help for their kids. Because I know some truly good, selfless conservatives. And unless they are so naive as to believe that hard work is all that it takes, and that the turnaround can come any time in a life, I don’t understand how they reconcile their politics with their morality. Seriously. I’m not trying to bite here. I want to know. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/135 "2004-07-18T22:54:00Z")
> [@AvhHines](#): > > Your death due to lack of seatbelt causes me psychological trauma that I would not otherwise have, for starters. And if, heaven forbid, the accident was my fault, my liability becomes far worse. But the guilt, the anguish of being the agent of another person’s death, would apply regardless of whether or not it was actually my fault. Your trauma, anguish, and liability would be totally avoided if you didn’t hit my car in the first place. And that’s rather the point. Take care of your own business, instead of trying to foist it off on the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/136 "2004-07-18T22:56:06Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > He isn’t going to answer, is he? > > I move that the witness be instructed to answer the question or that he be excused and his testimony stricken. Pray tell, what question would you like me to answer? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/137 "2004-07-18T22:57:20Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > Your trauma, anguish, and liability would be totally avoided if you didn’t hit my car in the first place. > > And that’s rather the point. Take care of your own business, instead of trying to foist it off on the rest of us. No, they wouldn’t, if you hit me. And since you may be driving at 90 MPH (in **milroyj** world), that’s actually the liklier scenario. Or don’t you understand that I could be anguished by your death even though the accident wasn’t my fault? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/138 "2004-07-18T23:03:32Z")
So in other words, I should wear a seatbelt so your feelings don’t get hurt? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/139 "2004-07-18T23:10:13Z")
> [@milroyj](#): > > So in other words, I should wear a seatbelt so your feelings don’t get hurt? :rolleyes: Let’s see. Buckling up each time you drive, or I get to suffer from having killed you the rest of my life? Yes, if you consider the anguish and trauma being involved in the death of another person, no matter how blameless (can’t you imagine the sleepless nights of ‘what could I have done differently? Am I really to blame no matter how fast he was going?’), to be ‘getting my feelings hurt.’ Or to put it in economic terms, since those seem to have greater appeal to you, your injuries are highly likely to be more severe if you aren’t wearing a seat belt. As a result, you cause my insurance rates to increase significantly. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533/140 "2004-07-18T23:32:48Z")
Actually, I don’t give a flying f\* about your anguish, or your insurance rates. Nice try to deflect blame onto the victim, and away from yourself, but I’m not buying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-this-presidency-has-been-the-u-s-as-worst-ever/255533.md?page=8)