# Do you think Trump will win in 2020? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 19, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728 "2019-06-19T01:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/841 "2019-12-19T15:11:51Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > We need a major recession and a disastrous war that gets a lot of American servicemen killed. I wish that were not the case - I wish we were intelligent enough as a society to care about abuses of power, but we’re not. This is where you guys totally lose me. Why? If the country is doing OK, the economy is doing great. For what reason (s) would you ever wish what you just wished? To simply have power back to implement your policies? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/842 "2019-12-19T15:14:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m trying to find the actual point of disagreement, hence why I asked this question. I think our society is tilted so profoundly (along factors like race, ethnicity, gender, and other characteristics that ought to have nothing to do with opportunity) that we’re not even close to equality of opportunity, and there’s a lot of things we can do to try and help level the playing field, even if this is a monumental task that will take a long time. If you don’t agree with me on this, then that’s our point of disagreement. If you do agree with me on this, then our actual point of disagreement must lie elsewhere, though I’m not sure where. No, you really aren’t. You are doing exactly what HD got banned for doing yet you are given free reign to continue doing it because you do it with a silver tongue. Continually shifting goal posts only for you to say later, I didn’t say that. And then when quoted, you fall back to “well, I didn’t mean it that way” I’m not interested, but I will call out that bullshit when I see it. Now, right now, was one of those times ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/843 "2019-12-19T15:17:41Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What personal attack? I called the argument it sounded like you are making asinine. That is attacking an argument not a person. If that isn’t your argument then you could have just clarified, but you have not. When you say he has some soul searching to do, you are implying he is racist. There is no ambiguity or subtlety to it at all (unless you are a mod then it will be vague as fuck and certainly not deserving of a warning). > [@](#): > > Also I did not say that at all, so no goal post shifting. I never said equal opportunity would lead to equal outcomes for all groups. Why do you feel the need to lie about what I said? Do you need to do that in order to defend your position? Here is what I said: > > "If you do believe this, then you would not expect equality of opportunity to correlate to equality of outcome. > > If you believe that all people have potential and that one type of person is on average equal to other types of people, then you would expect equality of opportunity across all types of people to lead to a closer equality of outcome for everyone." > > Either argue with what I actually said, or bugger off. But don’t lie about what I said. That’s bullshit. This is an accusation of lying and will also not result in a warning. To be clear no one is saying that opportunities are equal. Frankly I doubt they will ever be equal. Noone is saying that there is an innate intellectual gap between races but you can still have disparity in outcome even if there is no disparity in opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/844 "2019-12-19T15:22:12Z")
> [@FavreCo](#): > > Easy Trump win. It will be a massacre. D’s are right now finishing themselves off with a sham attempted coup. Is there any chance that the senate will remove him? Do any of the congressmen voting for impeachment think that the senate might remove him? And even if they DID remove him, do they think that Pence will become a Democrat? This is no more of an attempted coup here. The worst that can be said is that it is extremely partisan if you think that there is no actual evidence of any shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/845 "2019-12-19T15:36:46Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > No, you really aren’t. You are doing exactly what HD got banned for doing yet you are given free reign to continue doing it because you do it with a silver tongue. > Continually shifting goal posts only for you to say later, I didn’t say that. And then when quoted, you fall back to “well, I didn’t mean it that way” > > I’m not interested, but I will call out that bullshit when I see it. > Now, right now, was one of those times Huh? I asked you a question. There was even a question mark in it. If you’re interested in this topic and actually talking about it, then here’s my position again: I think our society is tilted so profoundly (along factors like race, ethnicity, gender, and other characteristics that ought to have nothing to do with opportunity) that we’re not even close to equality of opportunity, and there’s a lot of things we can do to try and help level the playing field, even if this is a monumental task that will take a long time. If you don’t agree with me on this, then that’s our point of disagreement. If you do agree with me on this, then our actual point of disagreement must lie elsewhere, though I’m not sure where. I’d be happy to continue this discussion if you’re still interested. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/846 "2019-12-19T15:41:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Huh? I asked you a question. There was even a question mark in it. > > If you’re interested in this topic and actually talking about it, then here’s my position again: I think our society is tilted so profoundly (along factors like race, ethnicity, gender, and other characteristics that ought to have nothing to do with opportunity) that we’re not even close to equality of opportunity, and there’s a lot of things we can do to try and help level the playing field, even if this is a monumental task that will take a long time. If you don’t agree with me on this, then that’s our point of disagreement. If you do agree with me on this, then our actual point of disagreement must lie elsewhere, though I’m not sure where. > > I’d be happy to continue this discussion if you’re still interested. Breathe. Go back, re-read what you quoted to argue about. This isn’t about you. You quoted me, made up some bullshit argument about what you quoted and NOW you STILL want to talk about what you misattributed. Want to have a discussion, try reading for comprehension and arguing for or against something that was actually, you know, discussed? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/847 "2019-12-19T15:48:00Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Breathe. Go back, re-read what you quoted to argue about. This isn’t about you. You quoted me, made up some bullshit argument about what you quoted and NOW you STILL want to talk about what you misattributed. Asking a question isn’t making things up, misattributing or mischaracterizing. I thought you might be saying something, but I wasn’t at all sure, so I asked, question mark and all. I wanted to avoid mischaracterizing your argument, since that’s not a good thing to do, so I asked to see if I was understanding it properly. No big deal. > [@](#): > > Want to have a discussion, try reading for comprehension and arguing for or against something that was actually, you know, discussed? Sounds great to me! Here’s my position on this topic (equality of opportunity in America): I think our society is tilted so profoundly (along factors like race, ethnicity, gender, and other characteristics that ought to have nothing to do with opportunity) that we’re not even close to equality of opportunity, and there’s a lot of things we can do to try and help level the playing field, even if this is a monumental task that will take a long time. If you don’t agree with me on this, then that’s our point of disagreement. If you do agree with me on this, then our actual point of disagreement must lie elsewhere, though I’m not sure where. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/848 "2019-12-19T15:50:26Z")
nm, duplicate ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/849 "2019-12-19T16:00:57Z")
Hi guys, since this is the “Will Trump win reelection in 2020?” thread, I made a [new thread for the equality of opportunity vs. equality of results debate,](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=22036043#post22036043) hope we won’t hijack this Trump thread. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/850 "2019-12-19T16:28:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When you say he has some soul searching to do, you are implying he is racist. There is no ambiguity or subtlety to it at all (unless you are a mod then it will be vague as fuck and certainly not deserving of a warning). Nope. Asking a poster to think through his position is not an accusation of racism. Stop junior modding. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > This is an accusation of lying and will also not result in a warning. He totally lied about what I said. My words were right there, we have a quote function. He felt the need to accuse me of saying something I clearly did not say. Again, stop junior modding. If you want to report me, report me. Also report him then for what he did. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/851 "2019-12-19T16:32:40Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > This is where you guys totally lose me. > > Why? > If the country is doing OK, the economy is doing great. > > For what reason (s) would you ever wish what you just wished? To simply have power back to implement your policies? As far as I know, I’d probably lose most of the progressives on this board as well, so you’ve got company. I don’t actually want this to happen, but I think it’s probably the only way we’re going to rid ourselves of Trump. That said, even if we do, there’s still Pence and a highly corrupt GOP. More and more, I’m of the opinion that American democracy is old political machinery that’s starting to break down, in need of parts that are no longer being manufactured. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/852 "2019-12-19T18:13:31Z")
Obviously trump will win, I mean look at his stunning victories in trade partners! > **[US government lists fictional nation Wakanda as trade partner](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50849559?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0j1Txx9DpIo1GWYf2MiMrr3stmtHxzaRqRrJZFq9qKmoTv0Fc7WrYTiio)** > > Officials say it was an error to add the fictional nation from Black Panther to the list. - “The US Department of Agriculture listed Wakanda as a free-trade partner - despite it being a fictional country.” \*:smack: And of course that proves he isnt a racist, since he has a Black trade partner, amirite?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/853 "2019-12-19T18:27:05Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > It seems you have some very strongly vested interest in believing that certain groups are inherently less than other groups. The NBA and the NFL are a red herring. You need to do some self reflection to understand why you find this idea so reflexively repellent. That’s enough right there. Attack the post. Do not personalize things. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/854 "2019-12-19T18:42:06Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’s enough right there. Attack the post. Do not personalize things. Understood and fair enough. Really didn’t appreciate him fabricating words and attributing them to me though. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/855 "2019-12-19T20:05:37Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What personal attack? I called the argument it sounded like you are making asinine. That is attacking an argument not a person. If that isn’t your argument then you could have just clarified, but you have not. > > Also I did not say that at all, so no goal post shifting. I never said equal opportunity would lead to equal outcomes for all groups. Why do you feel the need to lie about what I said? Do you need to do that in order to defend your position? Here is what I said: > > "If you do believe this, then you would not expect equality of opportunity to correlate to equality of outcome. > > If you believe that all people have potential and that one type of person is on average equal to other types of people, then you would expect equality of opportunity across all types of people to lead to a closer equality of outcome for everyone." > > Either argue with what I actually said, or bugger off. But don’t lie about what I said. That’s bullshit. This’ll get you a warning, Airbeck. Do not accuse others of lying. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/856 "2019-12-19T20:08:32Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Understood and fair enough. > > Really didn’t appreciate him fabricating words and attributing them to me though. And a second one for THIS accusation of lying. For heavens sake. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728/857 "2019-12-19T20:11:49Z")
This is a mess. I’m closing it. You can start again in 24 hours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-think-trump-will-win-in-2020/835728.md?page=42)