# Doc who caused Britain's MMR scare showed "callous disregard" for children, could lose license **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 28, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783 "2010-01-28T16:56:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/21 "2010-01-28T22:58:22Z")
I can’t say anything better than what’s already been said. Wakefield deserves to go down in history as a buffoon or an evil psychopath who deliberately endangered millions of childen’s lives for his own ego. I haven’t yet decided which. Could be both, of course. However, I anticipate absolutely NO change in the lunatic fringe’s worship of his “findings” and in their calls to continue wasting hundreds of millions of research dollars, and thousands and thousands of man-hours, investigating a link that’s already been soundly debunked. And for THAT, those people need to be publicly mocked and humiliated and ostracized every single chance we get. They need to be held up for loud and vociferous derision and scorn, and they need to be accused of endangering millions of children’s lives in same way that Wakefield did. This isn’t in the Pit, so I can’t say how I REALLY feel about Jenny No-Talent McCarthey and her simpering sidekick. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/22 "2010-01-29T00:06:09Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > This isn’t in the Pit, so I can’t say how I REALLY feel about Jenny No-Talent McCarthey and her simpering sidekick. Which is partly why I posted this in the Pit to begin with. Though you haven’t done badly considering the circumstances. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/23 "2010-01-29T00:20:22Z")
I am so tempted to post a link to that article on the breastfeeding group page I belong to, but I’m not sure I’m up for the firestorm. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/24 "2010-01-29T00:56:38Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Autism is really scary stuff. So far as I know, this guy is the first person to offer an explanation for it. Having an “answer” is really compelling, so I don’t blame the autism-MMR-link crowd for latching on to this guy. The alternative is “we really don’t know what the fuck is going on,” which is very difficult to accept. Quite right. My wife and I are experiencing this first hand, and while we seek ways to alleviate our youngest son’s issues, we’ve butted heads on many occasions on how to go about it. Although we both agree that McCartney is a shill, we are divided over the thermisol issue; me thinking that there is not a link while she thinks there is a link. We both agree that there is more likely a genetic issue as the root cause, but she has left the door open for any type of treatment and we’re pretty much taking the tour of duty on just about any type of treatment, save chelation. We own a business where we work with the developmentally disabled population, including adults with autism, so we do see more of our share of how autism affects people of all ages, and inquire with the parents of those we serve on what they have done or not done wrt their child’s diagnosis. With our business, we are able to spend money to learn more about autism in seminars, internet classes, tutorials, and newly developed programs. Since my wife has the degree and the psych background (I’m the fiscal half of the business), I usually stay with the kids while she does/goes to these events. She’s the type A that will leave no stone unturned while I’m more of the stabilizing force (type B); more accepting of the possible permanence of our son’s condition and supportive to my wife’s up/down swings of optimism and depression over our son. Rough road indeed, and he’s only 8 years old. Even though I think Wakefield is a quack, his findings (wrong or right) has brought more attention to autism which helps attract more funding for research from bonafide professionals who will be capable of finding the true root cause and legitimate treatment, if not possibly a cure. To cling so tightly to just one doctor’s findings and one quasi-celebrity’s euphoria (over a son who I think was probably misdiagnosed with autism in the first place) is really missing out on other possible explanations for what’s really going on wrt autism; discovery, cause, treatment. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/25 "2010-01-29T01:48:03Z")
In spite of the fact that it may do little to change the minds of people in the anti-vax movement, as a Doper I have to celebrate the fact that this evil man who has done so much to spread ignorance in the world is being punished. Even if his ignorance can’t be stopped, it might make the next person think twice before spreading lies that endanger lives. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/26 "2010-01-29T02:13:47Z")
My daughter-in-law, a family physician, feels that refusing vaccination for your children is a form of child abuse and has serious misgivings about having such families in her practice. She will, obviously, treat them for acute illnesses, but does not want to be their family doctor. People my age (73) will remeber what a boon vaccinations were and the race to get polio vaccinations when they came available in, I think, 1955. We look with disbelief on the current situation. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/27 "2010-01-29T03:01:43Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Although we both agree that McCartney is a shill, we are divided over the thermisol issue; me thinking that there is not a link while she thinks there is a link. No offense to you or your wife, but the thimerosol issue is dead. Thimerosol was phased out of vaccines in the U.S. in about 2001 (I think). Today, it is not present in any childhood vaccines other than some flu vaccines. Studies in multiple countries since 2001 show no link between the presence or absence of thimerosol, and the rates of diagnosis of autism. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/28 "2010-01-29T03:14:13Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > People my age (73) will remeber what a boon vaccinations were and the race to get polio vaccinations when they came available in, I think, 1955. We look with disbelief on the current situation. I think that the current anti-vac/anti-science crowd exists because vaccines WORK. They save lives. They decrease infant mortality. They are a success. My father does missionary work in the Sudan, and you can bet your sweet ass that they’re not worried about autism in poverty- and disease-stricken parts of the world. Their children are dying and they want those shots NOW. American parents of this generation, for the most part, do not have to look at their children and wonder which of those children would die before the age of 5 of a disease for which we have a vaccine now. So, parents today have lost the understanding of how important those vaccines were when they were first developed, and how much parents of your generation rejoiced. I don’t want to sound like I’m wishing for it, but one good hard-core epidemic of a treatable childhood disease that kills a bunch of kids is all it would take for this anti-vac nonsense to be over (please note that I am NOT wanting that to happen). ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/29 "2010-01-29T03:18:50Z")
McCarthy! Not McCartney! ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/30 "2010-01-29T03:56:53Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > No offense to you or your wife, but the thimerosol issue is dead. Thimerosol was phased out of vaccines in the U.S. in about 2001 (I think). Today, it is not present in any childhood vaccines other than some flu vaccines. Studies in multiple countries since 2001 show no link between the presence or absence of thimerosol, and the rates of diagnosis of autism. Yeah. Autism rates have continued to rise: > **[Autism Diagnoses Rise After End of Thimerosal in Vaccines](https://www.medpagetoday.com/pediatrics/autism/7889)** > > RICHMOND, Calif. -- Removing thimerosal, the mercury-based preservative, from childhood vaccines did not stem the rise in autism cases in California, according to investigators here. > [@thirdwarning](#): > > **LavenderBlue** , you might be interested in this, if you haven’t already seen it. > [http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-is-an-epidemic-new-jersey-is-toxic-and-other-urban-myths/](http://www.blisstree.com/articles/autism-is-an-epidemic-new-jersey-is-toxic-and-other-urban-myths/) > > It seems to be because New Jersey is very aware of Autism Spectrum Disorders and does a lot to deal with them. Thank you. > [@Kolga](#): > > I think that the current anti-vac/anti-science crowd exists because vaccines WORK. They save lives. They decrease infant mortality. They are a success. My father does missionary work in the Sudan, and you can bet your sweet ass that they’re not worried about autism in poverty- and disease-stricken parts of the world. Their children are dying and they want those shots NOW. > > American parents of this generation, for the most part, do not have to look at their children and wonder which of those children would die before the age of 5 of a disease for which we have a vaccine now. So, parents today have lost the understanding of how important those vaccines were when they were first developed, and how much parents of your generation rejoiced. > > I don’t want to sound like I’m wishing for it, but one good hard-core epidemic of a treatable childhood disease that kills a bunch of kids is all it would take for this anti-vac nonsense to be over (please note that I am NOT wanting that to happen). Alas we already have epidemics. Thanks in part to Dr. Wakefield there was a [measles](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7819874.stm) epidemic in the UK recently. We had one here in [the US](http://www.usnews.com/health/articles/2008/05/02/health-buzz-measles-epidemic-and-other-health-news.html) fairly recently as well. Unfortunately the anti-vax nuts are only immune to reason and common sense. Just about nothing will convince them. The only possible way to combat their idiotic campaign is to talk to parents who are on the fence. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/31 "2010-01-29T04:20:10Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I think that the current anti-vac/anti-science crowd exists because vaccines WORK. They save lives. They decrease infant mortality. They are a success. Bizarre as it seems, this is one explanation for the vehemence of antivaxers, notably those who are affiliated with various forms of alternative medicine. Vacccination is an outstanding success story. It is intolerable for diehard alties to admit this, because it goes against their anti-evidence based medicine preachings. [Here’s more on the Wakefield decision](http://www.neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/199) (including particulars of some of the findings against him) from Kathleen Seidel’s excellent Neurodiversity blog, which has covered major issues in research into (and exploitation of) autism and is widely recognized for its investigative reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/32 "2010-01-29T08:40:26Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The doctor faces being struck off the medical register following the ruling from the General Medical Council (GMC)… Serves the bugger right. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/33 "2010-01-29T08:58:07Z")
Perhaps its a little late now, but surely the way to go would have been for someone who was qualified, to study Dr Wakefield’s work and then counter its faults with reasoned explanation? Maybe this _has_ already been done, but it has not been done very effectively if one doctor can out-influence an entire medical practice. As has been mentioned, it’s understandable that parents with suffering children will latch on to the one “explanation” available, but why was that opinion allowed to take such sway? ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/34 "2010-01-29T09:39:36Z")
Well, I belong to a board where a bunch of these women have jumped on the anti-vax bandwagon. They are generally alternative medicine shills, as well. They think they’re very rebellious. Established science says X, but they are so discerning and educated that they in fact know it’s actually Y. They aren’t like all of those sheeple out there who jab needles in their kid’s arms blindly. They are different, privy to information the rest of us just don’t understand. They also don’t use Brand Name baby shampoo, gods no! Don’t you know it’s loaded with known carcinogens? It’s practically cancer in a bottle! Everyone knows Granola Crunchy Brand is the way to go. It’s a good thing they are here to tell people that, because those people aren’t smart and discerning enough to figure it out. I can barely breathe a word in support of modern medical science on these boards without being accused of blind, uneducated support of doctors. I’m not questioning like they are, therefore I must not be S-M-R-T like them. It’s totally an ego thing. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/35 "2010-01-29T10:12:38Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > If NJ does indeed have the highest autism rates in the country it’s probably because of many other factors such as high income rates, high access to social services and our well known pollution problems. Also there’s probably lots of “false positives”, because people from New Jersey talk like retards anyway. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/36 "2010-01-29T10:25:21Z")
The GMC’s on a roll, lately. Sir Roy Meadow was struck off a few years ago for making ridiculous claims about the likelihood of repeated cot deaths in a family when posing as an expert witness. If only the bar council would ban the dicks who allowed him to testify as a statistician in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/37 "2010-01-29T10:34:46Z")
And there was that other Nutt who claimed that some illicit drugs were less harmful than alcohol, who got sacked! Oh, but hang on…he was actually right. Hmmm…it’s a tricky business, this trusting “experts” lark. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/38 "2010-01-29T12:48:41Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Perhaps its a little late now, but surely the way to go would have been for someone who was qualified, to study Dr Wakefield’s work and then counter its faults with reasoned explanation? Maybe this _has_ already been done, but it has not been done very effectively if one doctor can out-influence an entire medical practice. It has indeed been done. Within months of Wakefield’s article, a Finnish study covering 14 years of data found no link. In 2002 a population study in Denmark involving around half a million children found no difference in autism rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated children. Japan, where MMR use was discontinued, exhibited no change in MMR rates. Numerous scientists at the time pointed out that a case study with no controls could not demonstrate causation. But: > [@](#): > > why was that opinion allowed to take such sway? In short, because “MMR causes autism” is a much better headline than “MMR found not to cause autism after all,” or “large, well-powered study finds no evidence for link between MMR and autism.” The MMR scare was in large part a media creation. While Wakefield has subsequently been shown to be a charlatan, even his original research as presented did not give reason to believe that MMR caused autism. But thanks to a complete ignorance of basic science among generalist reporters, the sidelining of science journalists when writing front pages, not to mention the readiness of supplement columnists and “experts” like Carol Vorderman to pronounce on matters of epidemiology as though they had medical qualifications, the story snowballed beyond anyone’s control. As usual, Ben Goldacre [says it better](http://www.badscience.net/2008/08/the-medias-mmr-hoax/) (note that that article was written before Wakefield’s misconduct was revealed). > [@Capt. Ridley's Shooting Party](#): > > The GMC’s on a roll, lately. Sir Roy Meadow was struck off a few years ago for making ridiculous claims about the likelihood of repeated cot deaths in a family when posing as an expert witness. Roy Meadow was subsequently reinstated by the High Court. And while his failure was undoubtedly egregious, one also wonders why the defence at no point engaged an actual statistician to question his claim. As with Wakefield, the failure was systemic as much as individual. And while one might expect the media to play up stories they think will shift papers, it beggars belief that Meadow’s claims went effectively unchallenged for so long. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/39 "2010-01-29T13:08:24Z")
**torie** , I knew some of these noodlebrains in college. I guess they were organically-grown whole-wheat noodlebrains. Anyway, at some point, they became so insufferable that they pushed away the non-noodlebrains. And their hygiene sucked. I guess this kind of noodlebrainedness doesn’t lend itself to soap and shampoo. They are **not** pleasant people to be around. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/40 "2010-01-29T13:48:50Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > Even though I think Wakefield is a quack, his findings (wrong or right) has brought more attention to autism which helps attract more funding for research from bonafide professionals who will be capable of finding the true root cause and legitimate treatment, if not possibly a cure. To cling so tightly to just one doctor’s findings and one quasi-celebrity’s euphoria (over a son who I think was probably misdiagnosed with autism in the first place) is really missing out on other possible explanations for what’s really going on wrt autism; discovery, cause, treatment. I have no dog in this hunt and understand that Wakefield is a deluded quack - and I respect your comment here. Ultimately, additional focus on autism can turn out to be a good thing - it is just sad that it emerges from such quackery… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783.md?page=3)