# Doc who caused Britain's MMR scare showed "callous disregard" for children, could lose license **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 28, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783 "2010-01-28T16:56:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/41 "2010-01-29T14:02:51Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > **torie** , I knew some of these noodlebrains in college. I guess they were organically-grown whole-wheat noodlebrains. Anyway, at some point, they became so insufferable that they pushed away the non-noodlebrains. And their hygiene sucked. I guess this kind of noodlebrainedness doesn’t lend itself to soap and shampoo. They are **not** pleasant people to be around. This issue is actually one of a number of reasons I have recently removed myself from the local pagan community. The utter and complete lack of scientific understanding, or willingness to engage in such understanding, combined with the “I know something you so-called educated people don’t!” arrogance coming from people who don’t understand how scientific methodology works, contributed to me pursuing a solitary path. > [@WordMan](#): > > I have no dog in this hunt and understand that Wakefield is a deluded quack - and I respect your comment here. Ultimately, additional focus on autism can turn out to be a good thing - it is just sad that it emerges from such quackery… The problem is that in order to try to shut these people up, scientists have wasted millions of dollars and thousands of man-hours continuing to, over and over, study a link that has already been shown to not exist. This is money and time that could have been better spent pursuing other avenues rather than attempting to convince the unconvinceable. We’ve lost a lot of time and a lot of resources addressing the unsupported fears of the uneducated and hysterical. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/42 "2010-01-29T16:19:49Z")
> [@Dead\_Badger](#): > > The MMR scare was in large part a media creation. While Wakefield has subsequently been shown to be a charlatan, even his original research as presented did not give reason to believe that MMR caused autism. But thanks to a complete ignorance of basic science among generalist reporters, the sidelining of science journalists when writing front pages, not to mention the readiness of supplement columnists and “experts” like Carol Vorderman to pronounce on matters of epidemiology as though they had medical qualifications, the story snowballed beyond anyone’s control. Here’s a brief commentary from Ben Goldacre (writing for the Guardian) which emphasizes [the media’s role](http://www.badscience.net/2010/01/the-wakefield-mmr-verdict) in creating this mess. _“Even if it had been immaculately well conducted – and it certainly wasn’t – Wakefield’s “case series report” of 12 children’s clinical anecdotes would never have justified the conclusion that MMR causes autism, despite what journalists claimed: it simply didn’t have big enough numbers to do so. But the media repeatedly reported the concerns of this one man, generally without giving methodological details of the research, either because they found it too complicated, inexplicably, or because to do so would have undermined their story…The MMR scare has now petered out. It would be nice if we could say this was because the media had learnt their lessons, and recognised the importance of scientific evidence, rather than one bloke’s hunch. Instead it has terminated because of the behaviour of one man, Andrew Wakefield, which undermined the emotional narrative of their story. The media have developed no insight into their own role, and for this reason, there will be another MMR.”_ Meanwhile some autism “advocates” continue to defend Wakefield and are going into hyperdrive [attacking the disciplinary panel’s verdict](http://www.ageofautism.com). _“The GMC proceeding is a frightening and thoroughly modern form of tyranny. It makes you shudder to think what Stalin or McCarthy might have accomplished if their public relations had been more skillful and better organized…the GMC hearing process stands exposed for what it is. It was not about medical standards. It was not about evidence. It was not even civilized. It was, rather, a naked exercise in intimidation, a fateful moment of moral decision in which the medical industrial complex exposed its ruthless, repressive essence.”_ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/43 "2010-01-29T18:15:43Z")
Meanwhile [this](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8486936.stm) has been let off. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/44 "2010-01-29T19:06:42Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Meanwhile [this](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8486936.stm) has been let off. But not by the GMC, who are looking to take further action, as stated in your linked article. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/45 "2010-01-29T19:31:59Z")
Here are the sort of deluded comments that appear in this [Daily Mail](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1246775/Doctor-centre-MMR-row-Andrew-Wakefield-faces-struck-GMC-ruling.html) article. - A paper which was in the forefront in appearing to support Wakefield and his loony ideas. It now seems to have back-tracked somewhat. _I think Dr Wakefield is a decent caring Dr, who believes in doing the right thing! The GMC who are funded by our totally discredited and useless Government, were told by Government,what the outcome of the hearing should be, long before it took place. Government don’t want to pay out compensation claims, simple as that!_ and \*Yet another example of the sinister bullying and intimidation that is central to nu labour’s approach to controlling our country. It is obvious that the GMC is riddled with nu labour and common purpose subversives and that they are terrified of the truth becoming known. Let us send a warning to the left, you are numbered in thousands, we are numbered in millions, if continue to oppress us as you are doing then we will rise up and crush the life out of you. Let Dr Wakefield continue his fight for the truth. - Andrew Murray, London, United Kingdom NOT the eu, 28/1/2010 16:48 \* ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/46 "2010-01-29T20:53:13Z")
I think I read in the Independent today that vaccination rates are back up to 88%. It’s nowhere near the 98% we had before the MMR scare but, considering it hit 60% in some parts of London in 2003, I’ll take it. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/47 "2010-01-29T21:26:33Z")
Wakefield’s initial research was a very poorly conducted case series in the _Lancet_. Anyone with any understanding of statistics and research methodology could have spotted the flaws- even before the obvious conflict of interest issues were apparent. I agree wholeheartedly with Ben Goldacre\* on this- the MMR hoax lies at the foot of the media just as much as Wakefield. He is a crank, a nut and a profiteer- and I’m glad he was struck off. The media, instead of subjecting his claims to scrutiny before trumpeting them on the front pages, instead parrotted his “findings” back to the public- who do not have the tools needed to objectively analyse the validity of his research- and they bear most of the blame. Without " EXPERT SAYS MMR CAUSES AUTISM" headlines Wakefield would quietly have gone away. Wakefield, it should be remembered, was a surgeon- not a neurologist or paediatric psychiatrist or any sort of specialist who could rightly claim expertise in the field of Autism. His day job involved removing appendices and sticking cameras into the gut from both ends. \*_Bad Science_ is an excellent read and a pretty good introduction to medical statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/48 "2010-01-29T21:50:49Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > No offense to you or your wife, but the thimerosol issue is dead. Thimerosol was phased out of vaccines in the U.S. in about 2001 (I think). Today, it is not present in any childhood vaccines other than some flu vaccines. Studies in multiple countries since 2001 show no link between the presence or absence of thimerosol, and the rates of diagnosis of autism. Let me clarify: [QUOTE=me] we are divided over the thermisol issue; me _thinking_ that there is not a link while she thinks there is a link. [/QUOTE] I should have said that I’m convinced, while she hears noise from all sides of the debate, including people telling her that they are still using “old” batches of vaccines (which I’m very skeptical about the claims), but she tends to believe stuff that is said by a friend rather than truth from a stranger. That’s why I try to refute a lot of stuff that she’s heard because she does for the most part listen to me…BUT…THERE…IS…TOO…MUCH…TO…REFUTE. She spends hours on the internet collecting stuff with various levels of merit; and I don’t have the time or patience to verify each claim. Don’t get me wrong, she’s an incredibly smart woman, but she gets sucked into a lot of stories that are well-spun by people who could either be hoaksters or just ignorant. Her obsession over our son’s condition drives her to the point of tears. That’s where I feel that I do my best…comforting her rather than beating her down with facts, I’m usually massaging in the facts by steering her to other sources of information that are legitimate. She constantly tells me that time is critical regarding how effective treatment will be; and as long as the treatment doesn’t harm him, I do my best to support her, even though in some instances, it may be a waste of time and money but it will give her a sense of “trying everything possible” to help our son. > [@WordMan](#): > > I have no dog in this hunt and understand that Wakefield is a deluded quack - and I respect your comment here. Ultimately, additional focus on autism can turn out to be a good thing - it is just sad that it emerges from such quackery… Agreed. I don’t advocate some one else’s suffering at the hands of someone who is not truthful and up front about it. This sounds cheesy, but it’s like Wakefield laid the manure down so that other bonafide professionals can cultivate a stronger garden from it. ---
**Author:** ![Hirundo82](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/919ad9/32.png) [@Hirundo82](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirundo82)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/49 "2010-02-02T17:11:47Z")
Update: [_The Lancet_ has issued a full retraction of Wakefield’s original MMR paper.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8493753.stm) ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/50 "2010-02-02T17:19:20Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > **torie** , I knew some of these noodlebrains in college. I guess they were organically-grown whole-wheat noodlebrains. Anyway, at some point, they became so insufferable that they pushed away the non-noodlebrains. And their hygiene sucked. I guess this kind of noodlebrainedness doesn’t lend itself to soap and shampoo. They are **not** pleasant people to be around. The antivaxers I’ve met tend to be conservative/reactionary rather than radical–the kind of families who homeschool their kids so the profane world doesn’t taint them. They have very good hygiene, but it’s hard to make good conversation. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/51 "2010-02-03T04:12:19Z")
> [@Rayne\_Man](#): > > [snip] > It is obvious that the GMC is riddled with nu labour and common purpose subversives and that they are terrified of the truth becoming known. > Let us send a warning to the left, you are numbered in thousands, we are numbered in millions, if continue to oppress us as you are doing then we will rise up and crush the life out of you. > Let Dr Wakefield continue his fight for the truth. > > - Andrew Murray, London, **United Kingdom NOT the eu** , 28/1/2010 16:48 bolded my favorite part ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/52 "2010-02-03T08:14:18Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > The antivaxers I’ve met tend to be conservative/reactionary rather than radical–the kind of families who homeschool their kids so the profane world doesn’t taint them. They have very good hygiene, but it’s hard to make good conversation. [Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.](http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/) is an antivaxer, and he’s hardly a conservative. He still has a link from his web site to an article in [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) claiming that the government conspired to suppress the “connection” between thimerosal and autism. I got into a spirited argument with a friend about this a few years ago - this friend expressed admiration for Kennedy for talking about this on his radio show, and refused to believe that large-scale studies didn’t show any connection between vaccination and autism. BTW, according to this [London Times article](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece) from February 8, 2009, Wakefield actually cooked the data in the study. According to this article, the medical records for the children involved in the study don’t match what he reported about them. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/53 "2010-02-03T20:22:28Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Also there’s probably lots of “false positives”, because people from New Jersey talk like retards anyway. 😉 [mod note] You jumped into the thread just to post this? We call that threadshitting, **lissener**. Don’t do it again. [/mod note] ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/54 "2010-02-08T14:26:26Z")
A great many of the anti-vaccine camp also seem to have a wildly exaggerated view of Autism. I’ve seen a surprising number of them quoted as saying that their children’s souls were gone, like it was nothing more than lumps of meat sitting there playing. Autism sucks. It’s also more or less manageable and there’s a huge range in autistic people, from those who are unnoticably different to people who need a LOT of routine and can’t fully function outside of it. It doesn’t make them intrinsically retarded or helpless or inhuman. They’re just different. And even with that, they have unusually exaggerated human attributes in one mental area. Thus, I was sympathetic to Autistic moms at first, but after a while, I started to wonder whose psychological needs they were really most worried about. Is it really so hard to acknowledge that no matter what, we do not currently have any cure for autism and they’re better off dealing with it as-is than trying dangerous experiments on their children at random? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/55 "2010-02-08T14:39:42Z")
Ironically, my daughter had to have an additional measles booster shot because of the aforementioned outbreak in south London. Thanks so much for screwing up the herd immunity, you anti-vax numbskulls. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/56 "2010-02-08T14:46:52Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > [Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.](http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/) is an antivaxer, and he’s hardly a conservative. He still has a link from his web site to an article in [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) claiming that the government conspired to suppress the “connection” between thimerosal and autism. I got into a spirited argument with a friend about this a few years ago - this friend expressed admiration for Kennedy for talking about this on his radio show, and refused to believe that large-scale studies didn’t show any connection between vaccination and autism. > > BTW, according to this [London Times article](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece) from February 8, 2009, Wakefield actually cooked the data in the study. According to this article, the medical records for the children involved in the study don’t match what he reported about them. Robert Kennedy is also on record of endorsing AGW. Fifteen months ago, he was yakking about how Washington DC would never see snow again..because of global warming. As far as I know RFK has never apologized for his bogus article on autism. Too bad - his activities have resulted in a lot of death and suffering. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/57 "2010-02-08T15:33:01Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > [Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.](http://www.robertfkennedyjr.com/) is an antivaxer, and he’s hardly a conservative. He still has a link from his web site to an article in [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) claiming that the government conspired to suppress the “connection” between thimerosal and autism. I got into a spirited argument with a friend about this a few years ago - this friend expressed admiration for Kennedy for talking about this on his radio show, and refused to believe that large-scale studies didn’t show any connection between vaccination and autism. > > BTW, according to this [London Times article](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece) from February 8, 2009, Wakefield actually cooked the data in the study. According to this article, the medical records for the children involved in the study don’t match what he reported about them. The Kennedy article was deeply [flawed.](http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/06/robert_f_kenned.html) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/58 "2010-05-24T12:13:39Z")
Wakefield in the news today: [MMR Doctor struck off register](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8700611.stm) ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/59 "2010-05-24T12:44:01Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Wakefield in the news today: [MMR Doctor struck off register](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8700611.stm) This will, of course, be regarded as further proof of a conspiracy by the medical-industrial complex. But good on the GMC. Hopefully the sanctions will hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783/60 "2010-05-24T13:06:21Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Wakefield in the news today: [MMR Doctor struck off register](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8700611.stm) Good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doc-who-caused-britains-mmr-scare-showed-callous-disregard-for-children-could-lose-license/526783.md?page=4)