# Docs/Interviews That Emphasize Degeneracy In Arts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 25, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570 "2020-04-25T21:27:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/21 "2020-04-26T13:04:29Z")
> [@MortSahlFan](#): > > But I’ve seen hundreds of movies in the last 40 years that were really bad, unoriginal, bad writing, bad acting. Look into Survivorship Bias—“their pictures are not here who were cast away, who are by much the greater number.” The world has always been flooded with crappy content. We only kept the better ones. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/22 "2020-04-26T13:16:35Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > “Degeneracy” referring to cultural matters is a term that I associate with pre-Boomer usage. I mean, “degeneracy”, really… what is this, 1920? Nope…1893. > **[Degeneration (Nordau)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degeneration_(Nordau))** > > Degeneration (Entartung, 1892–1893) is a two-volume work of social criticism by Max Nordau. > Within this work he attacks what he believed to be degenerate art and comments on the effects of a range of social phenomena of the period, such as rapid urbanization and its perceived effects on the human body. Nordau believed degeneration should be diagnosed as a mental illness because those who were deviant were sick and required therapy. These comments stemmed from his background as a trained physi... ---
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/23 "2020-04-26T13:23:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Look into Survivorship Bias—“their pictures are not here who were cast away, who are by much the greater number.” The world has always been flooded with crappy content. We only kept the better ones. If you listened to the radio in the 70s, you heard great stuff. Now people say “Oh, you won’t find anything good on the radio, or TV”, someone said the same (on another site) about YouTube… Those three mediums have a LOT of stuff. People talk about good music now being a mystery, having to be some kind of super-sleuth to find it. The ratio is certainly not in favor of the newer stuff. I go to concerts, and I STILL see 18-yr olds at bands who started before their parents were born… But I’d never see younger people at concerts by bands who started in the 80s, or 90s, which is closer to them in age. I don’t remember the site, but a few days ago, I was interested at looking at people’s Top 10, Top 50 bands, movies, etc., and so many were from way back, between the 1930-70s, and the people on these forums are almost all born after 1980. I’d recommend people see the documentary. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/24 "2020-04-26T13:37:28Z")
What documentary? Your OP doesn’t ever refer to a documentary. Is that the YouTube link at the bottom? Some description would be appreciated. What’s behind the link? How long is it? I don’t click on blind links to videos. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/25 "2020-04-26T15:59:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What documentary? Your OP doesn’t ever refer to a documentary. Is that the YouTube link at the bottom? Some description would be appreciated. What’s behind the link? How long is it? I don’t click on blind links to videos. Hour-and-a-half documentary on the deterioration of the corporate music business over the last few decades and the replacement of old-school talent development with the short-term marketing vision. Seems the first half of the opening post would cover OP’s take on the subject. Quickly scanned little bits here and there (because, like I’m gonna sit through 91 minutes for a SDMB thread!), caught segments of interviews with people in the industry about about auto-tune, the post-MTV emphasis on merchandising image, and the not-really-new matter of record houses wanting to emphasize the female singer’s sexuality over her singing talent. And really, **MortSahlFan** , after a year and a half you should have noticed that “watch this full-feature-length film to see more of what I mean” is not appreciated much around here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/26 "2020-04-26T16:02:55Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And really, **MortSahlFan** , after a year and a half you should have noticed that “watch this full-feature-length film to see more of what I mean” is not appreciated much around here. Plus, how good can it be if it got made within the last 40 years? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/27 "2020-04-26T17:00:09Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Plus, how good can it be if it got made within the last 40 years? Ah, 1958. That’s back when a good documentary about how the last 40 years of art is all shit _meant_ something! ---
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/28 "2020-04-26T17:00:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Plus, how good can it be if it got made within the last 40 years? Immature. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/29 "2020-04-26T17:02:53Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > First, let me say that I’m older than the OP. > > I have a subscription to the New York Times. Every Friday they review the week’s movie releases. In normal times that’s about 20 movies from all over the world. A thousand movies a year. How many of those are Hollywood blockbusters? Guessing even 10% would be too many. > > Netflix released 371 series and movies in 2019, an increase from 240 in 2018. > > Amazon Prime and Hulu and Quibi and the zillion other streaming channels probably equaled or bettered that number. > > Every time I read through an article about entertainment I see names of people who started out on YouTube, built up a following, and then got a bigger contract. > > There’s no shortage of good, maybe great, original and innovative programming being made. It might not be aimed at people in our age bracket, but the good new stuff has never in history been aimed at people in our age bracket. If the OP wants to watch it, do the work and hunt it down. But stop complaining that stuff you don’t watch and probably have never heard of is inferior or degenerate. Right. There has never been so much great television than there is now. It’s a Golden Age. There is so much great music being made today, that I can’t keep up with it. There are tons of great filmmakers working today. And access to all of this is far easier than it was back in the day. If you can’t find entertainment you like, you’re not looking very hard. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/30 "2020-04-26T19:24:07Z")
**[Further Moderating]** I had previously only skimmed the OP, and so did not notice this part: > [@](#): > > Someone does something ridiculous, gets the attention, and then “sells” the movie. I notice they never talk about the merits of the film. It’s always, “First Tranny Director” or some other superficial nonsense. And, that’ll be a Warning for hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/31 "2020-04-26T19:24:18Z")
**[Further Moderating]** I had previously only skimmed the OP, and so did not notice this part: > [@](#): > > Someone does something ridiculous, gets the attention, and then “sells” the movie. I notice they never talk about the merits of the film. It’s always, “First Tranny Director” or some other superficial nonsense. And, that’ll be a Warning for hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/32 "2020-04-26T20:34:21Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Hour-and-a-half documentary on the deterioration of the corporate music business over the last few decades and the replacement of old-school talent development with the short-term marketing vision. Seems the first half of the opening post would cover OP’s take on the subject. Quickly scanned little bits here and there (because, like I’m gonna sit through 91 minutes for a SDMB thread!), caught segments of interviews with people in the industry about about auto-tune, the post-MTV emphasis on merchandising image, and the not-really-new matter of record houses wanting to emphasize the female singer’s sexuality over her singing talent. > And really, **MortSahlFan** , after a year and a half you should have noticed that “watch this full-feature-length film to see more of what I mean” is not appreciated much around here. Hah! Listen to the Stan Freberg boxed set for many bits about the sad state of the music business in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Payola. Talentless children of big stars getting record contracts and being promoted into hits. I was listening back then and the one reason the Beatles caught on was that they had their own voice and weren’t plastic-wrapped product. As for movies, **MortSahlFan** should get one of those cheapo DVD collections of out of copyright movies. The comedy one has some gems - Steamboat Bill Jr., for example, but also Olsen and Johnson dreck, which drives me back to Hellzapoppin’ to clear my head. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/33 "2020-04-27T02:31:27Z")
**MortSahlFan** could you share a few examples of good content? I have to tell you that growing up in the 70s, listening to the radio, there was certainly good music, but boy howdy there was a lot of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/34 "2020-04-27T02:38:31Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Hah! Listen to the Stan Freberg boxed set for many bits about the sad state of the music business in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Payola. Talentless children of big stars getting record contracts and being promoted into hits. I was listening back then and the one reason the Beatles caught on was that they had their own voice and weren’t plastic-wrapped product… Stan Freberg was one of the many people in the business who hated, hated, hated rock ‘n’ roll. So was Mitch Miller. So was Frank Sinatra. They were set in their ways and saw music as one kind of thing. Rock ‘n’ roll wasn’t that kind and they couldn’t grasp the possibility that it was still young and could mature into an important art form. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/35 "2020-04-27T02:58:40Z")
> [@MortSahlFan](#): > > If you listened to the radio in the 70s, you heard great stuff. Now people say “Oh, you won’t find anything good on the radio, or TV”, someone said the same (on another site) about YouTube… Those three mediums have a LOT of stuff. People talk about good music now being a mystery, having to be some kind of super-sleuth to find it. The ratio is certainly not in favor of the newer stuff. > > I go to concerts, and I STILL see 18-yr olds at bands who started before their parents were born… But I’d never see younger people at concerts by bands who started in the 80s, or 90s, which is closer to them in age. > > I don’t remember the site, but a few days ago, I was interested at looking at people’s Top 10, Top 50 bands, movies, etc., and so many were from way back, between the 1930-70s, and the people on these forums are almost all born after 1980. > > I’d recommend people see the documentary. Raised in the 70s but the best concert I have ever seen is this. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSKVYP3jSLs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSKVYP3jSLs) Rock bands hate dance even though it could accentuate the music and entertain the audience. Evolution in music and all other arts make for better art. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/36 "2020-04-27T03:08:46Z")
> [@MortSahlFan](#): > > I like it. I was thinking about [this review](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=904617&postcount=26). ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/37 "2020-04-27T03:20:46Z")
I saw a long-ish video online about five years ago about what bullshit modern/abstract art is. Can’t find the link. He had this stupid trick where he would pass off some housepainter’s drop cloth as an abstract masterpiece. The art world isn’t for everybody, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/38 "2020-04-27T08:18:27Z")
Those teenagers incursions on my lawn grow deeper and more numerous with every passing year. But I’m ready for them…Oh yes. I have a shotgun loaded with rock salt and the world’s meanest hound…Begone with ye, pestilent youth, lest my cane find yer backside! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/39 "2020-04-27T09:18:14Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Sorry, forgot to put in the link to the appalling [scene from the Matrix.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFVSkncq00) [Improved version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIiZXghSNTM) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2020, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570/40 "2020-04-27T11:16:50Z")
I became a major movie fan 45 years ago. I was 23 at the time, but I hadn’t had time to watch a lot of movies before then (and didn’t live close to movie theaters). I read books, watched TV, and listened to music before then. And of course, I had to get through elementary school, high school, college, and the first year of grad school. Finding myself in a big university where there were lots of films shown every week on campus and in nearby theaters, I went to lots of films. I have continued to do that since then in the various places I have lived, worked, and studied. I’ve never done anything related to film in my job or in my studies, but it’s remained a major part of my life. So I can say that nothing you say is remotely like what I’ve observed in relation to movies. There have been lots of good to great ones over the past 45 years. From what I’ve seen of the films older than that, there have always been lots of good to great ones. Sure, there are better and worse years for films, but that is just normal variation. I don’t know as much about music over the same time period, but I don’t see any obvious trends there either. Tell you what, give us some examples of what you think are degeneracy in films and let us decide if there really is any trend there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/docs-interviews-that-emphasize-degeneracy-in-arts/852570.md?page=3)