# Doctor and daughter buried in Jerusalem on what was to be her wedding day. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016 "2003-09-11T18:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/21 "2003-09-11T20:12:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > > * * * > > Hello?? They were firing their weapons into the air while the planes were flying overhead. The pilots thought they were under attack. Could it have been avoided? Certainly. But it’s not a deliberate murder as this was.\*\* ermm I hate to point this out but the helicopters had left which was way they were celbrating; they then turned round and fired indiscrimnatenly into a crowded street that is murder every bit as bad as the recent suicide bombing. \*\*Then don’t throw stones at armed soldiers. :rolleyes: \*\* [/quote] So it’s a capital offense to throw a stone at a soldier or a tank:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/22 "2003-09-11T20:16:53Z")
Sometimes a death can be more tragic than another. The death of a doctor who treats terror victims at the hands of a terrorist _is_ more tragic than a “Joe-off-the-street.” The death of a bride-to-be on her wedding day _is_ more tragic than the death of another woman. The circumstances _do_ make them more tragic. That’s not to say, however, that other victims are any less deserving of mourning or sympathy or that the other victims’ deaths aren’t sad. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/23 "2003-09-11T20:20:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > \*\* > So it’s a capital offense to throw a stone at a soldier or a tank:rolleyes: \*\* No more than it is a capital offense to crawl into the bear exhibit at the zoo. But don’t expect my sympathy when the bear wakes up. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/24 "2003-09-11T20:21:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > \*\*ermm I hate to point this out but the helicopters had left which was way they were celbrating; they then turned round and fired indiscrimnatenly into a crowded street that is murder every bit as bad as the recent suicide bombing. > \*\* Huh?😕 ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/25 "2003-09-11T20:23:38Z")
Well I don’t think the death of a doctor is more tragic than anyone elses, it was his job, but the death of his daughter (and him)on her wedding day was particulary tragic. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/26 "2003-09-11T20:24:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > **ermm I hate to point this out but the helicopters had left which was way they were celbrating; they then turned round and fired indiscrimnatenly into a crowded street that is murder every bit as bad as the recent suicide bombing.** Cite? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/27 "2003-09-11T20:25:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*No more than it is a capital offense to crawl into the bear exhibit at the zoo. But don’t expect my sympathy when the bear wakes up. > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* So the soldiers like the bear has absolutely no morals then? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/28 "2003-09-11T20:26:52Z")
No, it means that there are consequences to your actions. And throwing rocks at people armed with guns _will_ usually get you shot. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/29 "2003-09-11T20:30:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > Sometimes a death can be more tragic than another. The death of a doctor who treats terror victims at the hands of a terrorist _is_ more tragic than a “Joe-off-the-street.” The death of a bride-to-be on her wedding day _is_ more tragic than the death of another woman. The circumstances _do_ make them more tragic. I disagree. When you start quibbling over which killings committed by which side of the conflict is more or less “tragic” or “unjust”; you’re just fanning the flames. > [@](#): > > That’s not to say, however, that other victims are any less deserving of mourning or sympathy or that the other victims’ deaths aren’t sad. > Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/30 "2003-09-11T20:31:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*I disagree. When you start quibbling over which killings committed by which side of the conflict is more or less “tragic” or “unjust”; you’re just fanning the flames. \*\* That’s fine. At least we can agree to disagree peacefully. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/31 "2003-09-11T20:36:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > I disagree. When you start quibbling over which killings committed by **which side of the conflict** is more or less “tragic” or “unjust”; you’re just fanning the flames. Bolding mine. I responded in haste before; allow me to amend please. I wasn’t picking these deaths because they were Isrealis. Had they been Palestinian in similar circumstances I would have felt the same way. I agree that too choose between innocent victims based on the side of the conflict is not productive. But I don’t see anything wrong with pointing out the unfortunate juxtaposition of the young woman’s wedding and her funeral; or with noting the sad irony of the person who dedicated his life to helping terrorists becoming a victim of a terrorist’s bomb. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/32 "2003-09-11T20:43:48Z")
More tragic in your mind perhaps. Not mine. Just another couple of senseless deaths in a conflict where I personally have precious little sympathy for either side. I assume you disagree with me - that does not necessarily make either of our views objectively more correct than the other. And I still don’t see any particular irony in these deaths, as opposed to any civilian casualty. Perhaps I don’t understand the word sufficiently, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/33 "2003-09-11T20:45:57Z")
**Zev** , do you honestly think that children who throw stones at a tank deserve to be killed. If you were in a tank and a child threw a stone at you would you kill him? ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/34 "2003-09-11T20:46:27Z")
I remeber seeing this on TV at the time it clearly showed the crowd clebrating then running as the helicopters came back. [http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/08/1033538897637.html](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/08/1033538897637.html) ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/35 "2003-09-11T20:47:54Z")
Zev, don’t pretend that killing children for throwing rocks is acceptable behaviour or not murder. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/36 "2003-09-11T20:47:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > \*\*These two lives are more significant than the countless others snuffed out on a regular basis? \*\* I actually find it ironic (there’s that word again) that this objection came up today. While there were 2792 victims of the terrorists in NYC on 9/11/2001, there were actually 2793 people murdered in the city that day. There was one other “conventional” (for lack of a better term) murder that day in the city. Yet at the ceremonies today, I didn’t see anyone honoring this person. I don’t think his name was read at the ceremonies. How are the deaths of the WTC victims any more significant than the death of this other victim? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/37 "2003-09-11T20:52:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\ ***Zev** , do you honestly think that children who throw stones at a tank deserve to be killed. If you were in a tank and a child threw a stone at you would you kill him? \*\* For heavens sakes, can you not see the difference between stating that death can be a consequence of throwing stones at armed men and **condoning** those deaths? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/38 "2003-09-11T20:52:26Z")
They aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/39 "2003-09-11T20:55:14Z")
I’ll go you one better (borrowed from something I recently read - I forget exactly what.). The 2792 are all being lauded as heroes and martyrs. And their survivors are grasping for big bucks. Are we really to believe that not one of those dead was a first class asshole? A criminal? A child abuser? Again, I don’t see the irony. By their very decision to live in Isreal, they increased the chances of their becoming victins of a terrorist attack. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/40 "2003-09-11T20:55:39Z")
No, I’m not stating that children throwing rocks should be killed. But firstly we’re not usually talking about five and six year olds. We’re usually talking about sixteen and seventeen year olds who should know better. Secondly, in many of the cases, there have been people firing live ammo at the soldiers from behind the children. Unfortunately, these people got caught in the crossfire. Thirdly, we’re not talking about one kid with one stone. Situations like this in other cities would be called “riots.” Lastly, stones, if large enough, can kill. We’re not talking about pebbles here. The situation is not as simple as little Johnny picking up a rock, throwing a pebble at the Big Horrible Soldier and so the BHS takes out his Uzi and pumps Johnny full of bullets… It is unfortunate when people die needless, and it’s doubly unfortunate when it’s a child (see, there I go again with the distinctions). But it’s less tragic when the person (or child) knowingly contributes to the situation surrounding their death. Unless you think that Dr. Applebaum and his daughter sitting in a coffee shop talking is a situation where they knowingly contributed to their deaths… Zev Steinhardt [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016.md?page=3)