# Doctor and daughter buried in Jerusalem on what was to be her wedding day. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016 "2003-09-11T18:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/61 "2003-09-11T21:37:48Z")
By the way: They have no airco in their one room houses. Or do you think they have… So that the children all packup up in that little house can have the luxury of playing inside while it so wonderfully hot outside. Do you see your children playing all together all days of their lives in one room where you can almost bake an egg on the floor, also day and night? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/62 "2003-09-11T21:40:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*By the way: They have no airco in their one room houses. Or do you think they have… So that the children all packup up in that little house can have the luxury of playing inside while it so wonderfully hot outside. \*\* Still doesn’t justify throwing rocks at soldiers. Let 'em go play baseball. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Do you see your children playing all together all days of their lives in one room where you can almost bake an egg on the floor, also day and night? \*\* Still doesn’t justify throwing rocks at soldiers. Is that going to get them air conditioning? In any event, I thought you said you were out of here? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/63 "2003-09-11T21:41:26Z")
Zev, OK, you have made a case that the deaths of the people you talk about in your OP was tragical. So what is your further intent with that OP. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/64 "2003-09-11T21:43:26Z")
Baseball? And you say you where “there”? Oh God. I don’t believe what I read here. This is just incredible. I’m out of this topic. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/65 "2003-09-11T21:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\* > So what is your further intent with that OP. > > \*\* Does there have to be a further intent? 😕 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/66 "2003-09-11T21:45:29Z")
Oh overlooked something that needs to be set straight here: So sorry, but they have **every right** to throw no matter what at an occupation force. Those soldiers have no right at all to be there. Don’t twist the truth. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/67 "2003-09-11T21:47:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Baseball? > And you say you where “there”? > > Oh God. I don’t believe what I read here. This is just incredible. \*\* Yes, I’ve been there. And it doesn’t have to be baseball, for heaven’s sake. But I find you’re telling me that Palestinian youth have _nothing_ to do with their lives other than throw rocks at Israeli soldiers to be incredible. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I’m out of this topic. \*\* So you’ve said before… Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/68 "2003-09-11T21:47:23Z")
If there is no further intent then just bringing this case up, then what is the debate. We can only say: how tragic. Everyone can say that. But that is about it, no? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/69 "2003-09-11T21:51:44Z")
So be it. If I wanted a debate, I would have put this in GD. And yet you’re back again… Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/70 "2003-09-11T21:54:30Z")
**Aldebaran** > [@](#): > > I heard one soldier say: Oh it has been calm today… But they always come here after school. And when then finally a stone came flying over the wall he smiled , turned around, laid his rifle on top of that low wall, overlooked the open space behind it and waited until a kid came out of the shelter of a street on the other side of that open space, picked up a stone and threw it. The soldier smiled and fired at the child. Newbie here. Not Israeli, nor Palestinian. No offence, but **where and when** did you hear that? I **saw** children throwing Molotov cocktails at Israeli soldiers [sans tank]… I’m very sorry about the Doctor and his daughter. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/71 "2003-09-11T21:58:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*Sometimes a death can be more tragic than another. The death of a doctor who treats terror victims at the hands of a terrorist _is_ more tragic than a “Joe-off-the-street.” The death of a bride-to-be on her wedding day _is_ more tragic than the death of another woman. The circumstances _do_ make them more tragic. \*\* Sorry, but the death of innocent people is tragic, period, I don’t give a fuck if she’s three years dviorced, or if she’s getting married tomorrorw. And i don’t give a fuck whether he’s a doctor or a janitor. It’s all damned awful. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*Again, this is faulty logic. > > Commenting on the tragedy of _one event_ is _not_ implicitly commenting on the tragedy – or lack of tragedy – of any other event. > > If I comment on the tragedy of 3000 people dying in the events of 9/11, I am not commenting on the relative tragedy value of those events in comparison to, say, Afghanistan or Iraq or Rwanda or Chechnya or Hiroshima.\*\* No, it’s your analogy that’s faulty. **Zev** ’s statement was not the equivalent of commenting on the tragedy of 9/11, and ignoring the events of Afghnisatan, etc., etc. It was the equivalent of commenting on the deaths of one or two WTC victims while ignoring all the others, just because those two victims happen to be a doctor, and a bride. I can understand seeing one death as more tragic than another if you happen to know the person in question, or his or her family and friends. People obviously react more strongly when they are personally involved. But to pick two essentially random people out of a group of victims, and single them out because of their occupation or their upcoming nuptials is, in my opinion, silly and irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/72 "2003-09-11T22:04:43Z")
No mhendo I DO think that the death of a bride on her wedding day is particularly tragic (perhaps becasue I attended a wedding a couplde of days ago myself), as subjective as that may be. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/73 "2003-09-11T22:10:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > **…ignoring the events of Afghnisatan, etc., etc.** :smack: Afghnisatan??? Where the fuck is Afghnisatan??? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/74 "2003-09-11T22:17:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \* > \*\*No mhendo I DO think that the death of a bride on her wedding day is particularly tragic (perhaps becasue I attended a wedding a couplde of days ago myself), as subjective as that may be. \*\* Think what you like. I’d be interested to hear the reactions of the relatives of the other dead people to your hierarchy of tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/75 "2003-09-11T22:38:36Z")
But when an Israeli soldier or settler is illed whilst taking part in the occupation I find it very hard to feel sympathy (well perhaps I do feel some sympathy for the soldiers as many of them are not there by choice and I know a couple of people who are currently serving there time as reservists in the IDF), but I certainly don’t find it hard to feel sympathy for this girl and her family. Every detah is a tragedy but some just evoke more sympathy than others. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/76 "2003-09-11T22:54:36Z")
Having a hierarchy of tragedy doesn’t imply that there is a hierarchy of worth with regard to the people involved. It’s a relative measure; about what has the most impact upon one’s personal sympathies. It was a greater tragedy to me when my father died than when my neighbor’s father died. It was more tragic to me when a young child in my church died unexpectedly in an avoidable, preventable accident than when a 87 year old woman died after a long, debilitating illness. I find the murder of an innocent more tragic than the death of someone who did something really stupid and paid the ultimate cost. A young woman dying on her wedding day (or the eve thereof) for having done nothing more than venturing out to a cafe to enjoy a meal and a visit with her father before her big day? That rips my heart out. Does that mean that she is, as a person, more important than anyone else? No, of course not. It just means that the circumstances of her death suck in a big way, and affect people emotionally in a big way. Reading all of this political nonsense into it is over the top. The concept that one cannot express their sympathy and sadness over one situation without paying lip service to every other similar situation is just stupid on its face. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/77 "2003-09-11T23:12:17Z")
ALDEBARAN – > [@](#): > > They are not “raised” to find it a sport for God’s sake. They see others doing it and they imitate it. Where are their parents? Have they no responsibility for their children’s safety? Given the violence and immorality on American TV, how far do you really want to put the weak argument that “they see others doing it and they imitate it” lets their parents off the hook? This is not skipping school or jaywalking; this is something extraordinarily dangerous and stupid. You’re the one who equated it to “sport,” not me. If I thought for one minute my sons would go out and throw rocks at armed men – hell yes, I’d keep them in the house 24/7. MHENDO – > [@](#): > > It was the equivalent of commenting on the deaths of one or two WTC victims while ignoring all the others, just because those two victims happen to be a doctor, and a bride. “Ignoring all the others”? You fail to see any logic problem in infering that citing only A and B means you are “ignoring” C through Z? If I say “I like peas,” am I “ignoring” carrots and broccoli? How does that work? And FTR, I would see nothing wrong with pointing out “Victim X who died on 9/11 was supposed to get married that weekend,” or “Victim Y who died on 9/11 was nine months pregnant” as indication that their deaths were somehow extra poignant or extra tragic. You may not agree, but then tragedy is apparently a matter of opinion. But if I mentioned those two, am I therefore in your world “ignoring” the rest of the victims? I’m sorry, but by what rationale does that even make sense? > [@](#): > > I can understand seeing one death as more tragic than another if you happen to know the person in question, or his or her family and friends. People obviously react more strongly when they are personally involved. But to pick two essentially random people out of a group of victims, and single them out because of their occupation or their upcoming nuptials is, in my opinion, silly and irrelevant. And you’re welcome to your opinion. But the fact of the matter is that _most_ people do find that certain factors make a death seem more tragic – the death of a child, for example. The death of a person who died doing a noble act; the death of a person who had overcome death or great hardship before; the death of a person on the verge of a happy or lucky event; for three more examples. Such distinctions may strike you as “silly” and “irrelevant,” but to many people, they are not. I’m hardly in a position to insist you agree with ZEV that _these_ deaths are particularly tragic, but I must point out you’re hardly in a position to inform him that they are _not_. And for myself, I will hardly grant you the authority to decree the degree of relationship necessary before I or anyone else can decide that a particular event is a tragedy. I’m out of here. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/78 "2003-09-11T23:15:32Z")
I’m not actually out of here. I just forgot to delete that from the bottom of a quoted post. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/79 "2003-09-11T23:34:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d be interested to hear the reactions of the relatives of the other dead people to your hierarchy of tragedy. I’d be interested to hear the reactions of the relatives of these dead people at you appearant indifference. Why is it, **mhendo** , you seem to have such a hard time allowing other people to have thier own opinions? Just because I may find these deaths a bit more tragic than you do, does not mean that I am wrong. Nor does it mean that you are wrong. Why does anyone have to be wrong? People have a wide range of emotional reactions to different situations. If someone feels that a certain event is tragic, then why would you have a particular problem with that? My own reaction may be based on past experiences and personal emotional situations that have happened to me personally. These experiences and emotional situations are what form my reactions to events such as these. Since my reaction is my own and is probably based on experiences from my own life I do not feel the need to justify or explain it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/80 "2003-09-11T23:50:41Z")
**Jodi** Fine, call it nothing more than a matter of personal opinion if you like. Indeed, you’re probably correct that “_most_ people do find that certain factors make a death seem more tragic – the death of a child, for example.” I don’t, but i concede that you and they are perfect entitled to your irrationality on the issue. I may not agree with it, but i can understand the emotions from which it springs. What i don’t understand is taking a single awful incident (out of many hundreds or thousands), and then further singling out two individuals, neither of whom you have any personal attachment to or contact with, and launching a lament about them as if they somehow stand for or overshadow all the other victims of that same attack. I don’t there’s anything particualrly reprehensible about it; i just find it all rather pointless and illogical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016.md?page=5)