# Doctor and daughter buried in Jerusalem on what was to be her wedding day. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016 "2003-09-11T18:22:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/101 "2003-09-12T05:58:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*BLOWERO – > > Again, this is faulty logic. I submit that what we are dealing with is not a problem in logic. I said that Zev was opening a Pandora’s box by commenting on a death on the side of the conflict that he obviously sympathizes with; a death that was caused by the _other_ side of the conflict. As much as you want the comment to be neutral, the folks on the _other_ side aren’t going to view it that way. You don’t think he opened a Pandora’s box? Sure looks like a fucking Pandora’s box to _me_. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/102 "2003-09-12T06:04:05Z")
What is it you’re asking BLOWERO? That because he identifies with one side more than another, he refrain from remarking on tragedy when he sees it? Or that he only be allowed to remark on tragedies of the side that is not his own? Jesus, if this thread proves anything, it’s the ability of some to take pretty much anything straght up the nose, regardless of piddling little concerns like intent. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/103 "2003-09-12T06:20:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > What is it you’re asking BLOWERO? I believe I was clear. Perhaps you have a comprehension problem ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/104 "2003-09-12T06:30:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*Jesus, if this thread proves anything, it’s the ability of some to take pretty much anything straght up the nose, regardless of piddling little concerns like intent. \*\* **OWWW!!!** Damn, **Jodi** , you gotta warn me before you say things like that, so I can turn off the alarm function on my irony meter. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/105 "2003-09-12T13:35:35Z")
**zev-baby** - I certainly questioned your motives in posting this in the Pit. In so doing, I read into your actions messages that you say you did not intend. I believe you and accept your explanation of your views, though I still maintain that the manner in which this was posted could foreseeably have been expected to spur certain reactions, whatever your personal thoughts and motivations. Having said that, however, I want to compliment and thank you for the grace and respect with which you have presented your views as this thread developed. You made my Friday. Thank you, sir. (Absolutely nothing sarcastic or otherwise uncomplimentary intended in this post.) (Apologies for being all gushy in the Pit!) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/106 "2003-09-12T16:02:52Z")
[list=1][li]Stones can very well be lethal.[/li]A person under attack has the right to defend himself[/list=1] ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/107 "2003-09-12T18:41:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > \*\* > And i still believe this to be the case. As i said to **Jodi** , for example, i still think that a belief in the inherently greater tragedy of a child’s death is a purely emotional, and not a very logical position. I understand the emotions that lead people to take such a position, but i maintain my argument that it is irrational. \*\* Fair enough I’d buy that argument. The only problem, however, is that we aren’t Vulcans. We’re humans with emotions and our emotions _do_ guide us in some of the decisions that we make, even if they aren’t perfectly rational. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/108 "2003-09-12T18:58:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > \*\ ***zev-baby** - I certainly questioned your motives in posting this in the Pit. In so doing, I read into your actions messages that you say you did not intend. I believe you and accept your explanation of your views, though I still maintain that the manner in which this was posted could foreseeably have been expected to spur certain reactions, whatever your personal thoughts and motivations. \*\* To be honest, I didn’t expect this type of reaction to my simple posting. I purposely kept the OP rant-free (and let the story speak for itself) because I didn’t want to open up a Pandora’s box by starting with “Those lousy stinkin’ &^%\*…” and start an Israel/Palestine debate. I try to stay as far away from those as possible because I know what quagmires and train wrecks they can become. I certainly didn’t expect (and I probably should have anticipated this, but I didn’t) people to try to compare these deaths with other deaths both among the Palestinians and around the world. Once it started becoming a Palestine/Israel debate, I even considered asking the mods to close this thread, something I have not done in the 3+ years that I am a member of these boards. But in the end I decided to leave it open for two reasons: (1) Becuase once the subject has been brought up, it merits exploration. While I still maintain my position that the particular circumstances of these deaths make them especially poingnant and tragic; the opposing view is not so off-the-wall or outrageous to have discussion of the matter shut down. (2) To have this thread stand as a reminder to myself to put more thought into OPs on highly emotional topics and to reconsider before posting the unintended consequences or unintended inferences of what I say or omit in my post. For whether I meant to state that only these deaths were special and damn the rest or whether I just meant to highlight the particular circumstance of these two while simply not commenting on the rest, I certainly didn’t mean to start this firestorm of debate on the topic. Hopefully, remembering this thread will cause me to fully anticipate (as much as is possible) the reactions of others to my posting. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Having said that, however, I want to compliment and thank you for the grace and respect with which you have presented your views as this thread developed. You made my Friday. Thank you, sir. > > (Absolutely nothing sarcastic or otherwise uncomplimentary intended in this post.) > > (Apologies for being all gushy in the Pit!) \*\* Thank you for the compliment **Dinsdale**. It means alot to know that someone with whom you disagree on a particularly emotional subject nonetheless thinks that you handled yourself with “grace and respect.” BTW, Zev-baby??? 😕 Zev (baby? 😕 ) Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/109 "2003-09-12T19:08:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > or with noting the sad irony of the person who dedicated his life to **helping terrorists** becoming a victim of a terrorist’s bomb. Umm, folks, that should have been helping terrorist’s _victims_… I don’t believe I did that. That deserves :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/110 "2003-09-12T19:19:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > > * * * > > Fair enough I’d buy that argument. The only problem, however, is that we aren’t Vulcans. We’re humans with emotions and our emotions _do_ guide us in some of the decisions that we make, even if they aren’t perfectly rational. > Zev Steinhardt \*\* Without a doubt. And, despite any impression i may have given in this thread, i am not a Vulcan either. I do have emotions, and there are times when i happily (or angrily, as the case may be) give them free rein. I suppose the real issue here is that every person has a different threshold, in any particular situation, at which emotion tends to overtake reason. I just think that we should do our best to let reason dictate our subsequent actions. So, while i completely undertand that people get emotional over something like a suicide bombing or a death of a child, we should try not to let this emotion dictate our actual response to the situation (i.e. what action, if any, we take in response to it) if that response is only going to make thing worse and not better. Because i think that sometimes–not specifically in the case of your OP–the response just inflames the situation. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/111 "2003-09-12T19:22:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*Jesus, if this thread proves anything, it’s the ability of some to take pretty much anything straght up the nose, regardless of piddling little concerns like intent. \*\* It also shows that some people assume that intent can always be accurately inferred by the listener, no matter how ambiguously or inadequately it is articulated. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/112 "2003-09-12T19:32:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*Umm, folks, that should have been helping terrorist’s _victims_… > > I don’t believe I did that. That deserves :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* I dunno. If a guy who devoted his life to helping terrorists got killed in a terrorist bomb, it _would_ be something of an irony. Just not a particularly sad one. Anyway, this is one case where i _did_ know what you meant. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/113 "2003-09-12T20:46:58Z")
> [@](#): > > But i still reserve my right to argue that your position is illogical Sorry, **mhendo** , but I can’t figure out how to get your name included in the quote. Now then, back to what I was gonna say… It seems that you expecting logic in an emotional response. As you yourself pointed out, emotional reactions are often void of logic. You did make me think though. In trying to come to a logical reason for my view of thinking these deaths a small bit more tragic, I came up with this: I think that because I have been explained some extenuating circumstances (The terrorist victim doctor and his daughter being buried on her wedding day) gives me the ability to place a tiny bit more tragic value upon their deaths. If I had not been exposed to those personal details of their lives and deaths, then I would probably look at it much like you do and see them no more tragic than any other death. With the story outlining the details it makes them more of real people rather than numbers in a senseless battle. Since I can more easily view them as people rather than statistics, I can feel them a bit more tragic. Or, that may all be bullshit. Oh well…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/114 "2003-09-12T20:52:28Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Greathouse_ > Sorry, mhendo, but I can’t figure out how to get your name included in the quote. You can either use the quote button at the bottom of the post you want to quote (wich will automatically attribute the quote) or you can just type it in yourself after the first [quote] tag. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/115 "2003-09-12T20:55:47Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Miller \* \*\*You can either use the quote button at the bottom of the post you want to quote (wich will automatically attribute the quote) or you can just type it in yourself after the first > [@](#): > > tag. \*\* Holy shit! I’ve been to two county fairs and a goat fucking and I still had never noticed the quote button down there. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/116 "2003-09-12T22:34:25Z")
Koreans throw Molotovs at the riot police. Oh I suppose Molotovs are less lethal than rocks. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/117 "2003-09-12T22:34:25Z")
Koreans throw Molotovs at the riot police. Oh I suppose Molotovs are less lethal than rocks. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016/118 "2003-09-12T22:46:51Z")
Sorry about that. What I meat is that why the South Korean students not met with lethal force the way Palestinian children are? Are the children all Hamas? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-and-daughter-buried-in-jerusalem-on-what-was-to-be-her-wedding-day/201016.md?page=5)