# "Doctor", not "the doctor" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 20, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427 "2020-10-20T18:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/41 "2020-10-23T01:43:06Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > But you’re right, the definite article does get dropped in American English Sometimes it’s just dropped as a kind of shorthand, but without any change in meaning. I could say “Road’s closed” in response to someone asking why they can’t go this way, but it’s identical to “The road is closed.” It’s almost like a contraction. I wonder if some of the uses of “Doctor’s in” are just due to this, as compared to use of “Doctor” as some kind of honorific. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/42 "2020-10-23T04:56:27Z")
To my children I call the person I married and am sleeping with, “mom”. Ya’ll worrried about bizarre _determiners_? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/43 "2020-10-23T08:14:04Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I’m not arguing that. Just that one phrase. Brits say “in hospital” but Americans do not. That’s because ‘in hospital’ is generic, whereas ‘in the hospital’ means a specific hospital. It’s no different from saying ‘in prison’ or ‘in school’. I would say the US version is more inconsistent than the British. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/44 "2020-10-23T08:41:33Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I don’t think that’s quite the same. There are a couple of definitions of “go to bed” , but neither of them necessarily involves an actual bed.I don’t think there’s a meaning for “in hospital” that might not involve a hospital. > > But you’re right, the definite article does get dropped in American English - we say “in prison” ,"in school, “in church” etc. But I’m not sure if they are always used in exactly the same way they are used across the pond - for example, “in school” or “in college” in the US might refer to being enrolled, rather than physically at a particular place. Except that while you might be ‘in’ prison, my granddaughter is ‘at’ school if she is physically there. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/45 "2020-10-23T19:50:33Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I would say the US version is more inconsistent than the British. Inconsistency is what Americans do best 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/46 "2020-10-24T01:25:07Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Inconsistency is what Americans do best 🙂 Not always. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/47 "2020-10-24T02:11:05Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > as compared to use of “Doctor” as some kind of honorific. It’s not an honorific. It’s a (generic) name. Fred is ready. Doctor is ready. Mother is ready. Why not use a full name? Because it’s not necessary. Fred Nurk is waiting for you. Doctor Frankenstein is in the surgery. Mother Hubbard lives in a shoe. Full name is more formal: Thomas Sawyer. “That’s the name they lick me by. I’m Tom when I’m good. You call me Tom, will you? ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/48 "2020-10-24T02:33:16Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Except that while you might be ‘in’ prison, my granddaughter is ‘at’ school if she is physically there. Never really thought of that, but yes… In my usage: My child is in school = my child regularly is attending school during normal scheduled times My child is at school = my child is at this very moment attending school My child is at the school = my child is currently located at the school building for any reason at all (or none) but not for classes ---
**Author:** ![Newtosite](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/newtosite/32/8623_2.png) [@Newtosite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Newtosite)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/49 "2020-10-24T04:50:42Z")
This reminds me of the first line in a children’s book that bothered me when I read it as a kid: “It was Cook’s night out.” [https://www.tias.com/tom-and-jerrys-party-little-golden-book-222488.html](https://www.tias.com/tom-and-jerrys-party-little-golden-book-222488.html) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/50 "2020-10-24T07:25:58Z")
Grammar book says (among other things): > [@](#): > > Unlike many other languages, English normally requires an article with a singular count noun as complement: > > Bill is _an engineer._ / Mary is _the secretary._ > > There is, however, one circumstance in which the zero article occurs in such constructions: this is where the complement (or an equivalent appositive noun phrase) names a UNIQUE ROLE or task. As the following examples show, in such cases the zero article alternates with _the_: > > Maureen is _(the) captain of the team_. > John F. Kennedy was _(the) President of the United States_ in 1961. > […] “In hospital”, “in class”, etc., are covered under quasi-locative phrases concerning some institutions of human life and society; other examples of zero article are for means of transport and communication, times of day and night, seasons, meals, and illnesses. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/51 "2020-10-24T16:54:23Z")
I think of “in hospital” as a Britishism. Same with “university”. As an American, I went to _a_ university. I went to college at _a_ university. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/52 "2020-10-24T20:03:26Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > It’s not an honorific. It’s a (generic) name. Fred is ready. Doctor is ready. Mother is ready. > > Why not use a full name? Because it’s not necessary. > Fred Nurk is waiting for you. > Doctor Frankenstein is in the surgery. You seem to be saying two different things. I’d agree that “the doctor”, in common usage, is just a generic name (aside from “The Doctor” used by Doctor Who). But you talk about a “full name”, which implies that “Doctor” is a shortened version of “Doctor Frankenstein”. But that’s keeping the honorific part, not using a generic label. Or, at the least, using the honorific as a kind of office nickname. Sometimes the indefinite article gets dropped in casual speech, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on here–it’s not “the doctor” that got elided into “doctor”. Where it’s used, it seems to be used consistently, and possibly as a sign of respect. I wonder if people that use that form capitalize it if in the middle of a sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/53 "2020-10-24T21:08:10Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > But that’s keeping the honorific part, not using a generic label. Or, at the least, using the honorific as a kind of office nickname. It’s a _first_ name. Like _Fred_. It’s a descriptive first name, like Smith, or Black, or Huxtable or Marshall are (were) descriptive last names. Like Andrew, Mary, Allen are (were) descriptive first names. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/54 "2020-10-24T21:14:08Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I think of “in hospital” as a Britishism. Same with “university”. As an American, I went to _a_ university. I went to college at _a_ university. ‘went to college’ ? Not ‘a college’? ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/55 "2020-10-24T21:22:38Z")
Right, that’s the Americanism I mentioned a few posts back, same thing: “I’m in school/college” means “I regularly attend/am enrolled at a school/college”. “Went to college” means “I was previously enrolled at a college/university”. We never use the “went to university” construction, and we generally don’t say “went to a college”, UNLESS it was part of a broader informative statement, such as “I went to a college in the middle of the prairie in Nebraska that you have never heard of.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/56 "2020-10-24T21:32:53Z")
But that’s exactly the usage we’re talking about; Went: to college = was enrolled to hospital = received treatment to prison = was convicted of a crime to church = attended worship to school = attended class Both variants of English have these constructions, just not in the same assortment. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/57 "2020-10-24T23:00:19Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > It’s a _first_ name. Like _Fred_ . I find that to be a very odd way of looking at things. The doctor already has a first name, and it’s probably not Doctor. Plus, plenty of doctors will go by “Doctor Steve” or the like. In non-medical settings, he goes by Steve. In the office, the honorific Doctor is added. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/58 "2020-10-24T23:06:01Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Sometimes the indefinite article gets dropped in casual speech, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on here–it’s not “the doctor” that got elided into “doctor”. Where it’s used, it seems to be used consistently, and possibly as a sign of respect. I wonder if people that use that form capitalize it if in the middle of a sentence. “Doctor Doctor, I’ve got this strawberry growing on my head.” “Don’t worry, I’ve got some cream for that.” ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2020, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/59 "2020-10-25T04:26:54Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > to hospital = received treatment That wouldn’t ever be used in the US, any more than we’d say, “He went to store.” It’s always “to _the_ hospital.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427/60 "2020-10-26T13:47:40Z")
Yes, but you do have some of the others such as ‘to church’. Like I said, both dialects do this, just in different assortments. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-not-the-doctor/923427.md?page=4)