# Doctor of law in the U.S. (etiquette) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 30, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088 "2016-05-30T14:22:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/1 "2016-05-30T14:22:45Z")
AFAIK, an individual who graduates from law school in the U.S. receives a Juris Doctor (J.D.) which is, of course, Latin for: Doctor of law. I wonder if a law school graduate is ever addressed as “Doctor”, for instance in a formal setting and/or when you want to be courteous and extra polite. Let’s say Bill Cheatem, Esq., J.D., is invited to a social function at the local Rotary Club where he is introduced to John Doe, M.D. (a cardiologist) and Jane Roe (the director of the local library who holds a Ph.D. in comparative late-medieval Mongolian literature). How would the conversation go: “ **Dr. Cheatem** , please meet Dr. Roe and Dr. Doe” or “ **Mr. Cheatem** , please meet Dr. Roe and Dr. Doe”? What about lawyers who hold a Doctor of Juridical Science (S.J.D. or J.S.D.)? I understand that these doctorates are actually extremely rare. What’s the purpose and the reputation of these doctorates? Are they a prerequisite for an academic career? Would a S.J.D. be considered a “real” Doctor (i. e. on par with a Ph.D.)? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/2 "2016-05-30T14:31:08Z")
I see no reason to respond to an inquiry that uses a loaded fictitious name suggesting dishonesty to refer to a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/3 "2016-05-30T14:36:08Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I see no reason to respond to an inquiry that uses a loaded fictitious name to refer to a lawyer. 😃 My law school offered at one point to exchange my LL.B for a J.D. I can’t imagine caring to do that. As for addressing a J.D. as “doctor” - never heard anyone do that. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/4 "2016-05-30T14:39:08Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I see no reason to respond to an inquiry that uses a loaded fictitious name suggesting dishonesty to refer to a lawyer. There actually is a real law firm with that name (different spelling): [http://www.dewey-cheatham-howe.com](http://www.dewey-cheatham-howe.com) Other than that, I didn’t mean to insult anybody. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/5 "2016-05-30T14:43:04Z")
[The Protocol School of Washington](http://www.formsofaddress.info/attorney.html) > [@](#): > > I get questions asking whether faculty at law schools are addressed as Dr. (Name) like their academic colleagues holding doctorates? In practice, legal faculty are typically addressed as Mr./Ms. (Name) in style of their practicing legal colleagues. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/6 "2016-05-30T14:45:21Z")
When I was in law school in Ontario, we typically addressed faculty as “Professor [lastname]”. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/7 "2016-05-30T14:45:48Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > There actually is a real law firm with that name (different spelling): > > [http://www.dewey-cheatham-howe.com](http://www.dewey-cheatham-howe.com) > > Other than that, I didn’t mean to insult anybody. Sorry. Actually, that appears to be a parody website. Again, I do apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/8 "2016-05-30T14:56:05Z")
It’s called poisoning the well in your OP. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/9 "2016-05-30T15:14:55Z")
A JD degree is not a doctorate, despite the name. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/10 "2016-05-30T15:21:26Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s called poisoning the well in your OP. I was under the impression that “Cheatem” (as in Dewey, Cheatem and Howe, of Cartalk fame) was an accepted placeholder like John Doe and Jane Roe. In my example, I wanted to use it to illustrate a certain social situation I’m interested in. The Orange County Bar Association uses the moniker in official documents: > **[btgpdf.pdf](https://www.ocbar.org/portals/0/pdf/btgpdf.pdf)** > > 24.40 MB ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/11 "2016-05-30T15:34:37Z")
“Dewey, Cheatem and Howe” appeared in the 1930s with the Three Stooges, long before Car Talk. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/12 "2016-05-30T16:13:59Z")
Yes. It’s also widely used by law faculties in the U.S. in all sorts of legal texts, in style guides, resume guides and in teaching material. It even made it to the Congressional Record. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/13 "2016-05-30T16:37:04Z")
A lawyer is almost never addressed as “doctor [last name].” I’m a lawyer and I’ve never seen it done. The closest you get are some narcissistic lawyers saying in a not-quit-sure-if-they-are-joking tone that “you know I’m also a Doctor because a JD stands for …” ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/14 "2016-05-30T18:54:27Z")
To actually answer the question, the traditional rule found in 20th century American etiquette guides by the likes of Emily Post and Judith “Miss Manners” Martin is that _only_ physicians receive the courtesy title of “Doctor” in social (nonprofessional) settings. Also, among social equals of similar age, men were to be presented to women. So the “proper” introduction would have been “Ms. Roe, I’d like you to meet Dr. Doe and Mr. Cheathem.” If Ms. Roe and Dr. Doe already knew each other, I think it would be, “Ms. Roe and Dr. Doe, this is Mr. Cheatem.” Of course, this assumes that Doe and Roe were of similar age. Otherwise the younger man is presented to the older. It also assumes that this is the narrow span of time (late 70’s to mid 80s?) when formal introductions in a social setting would coexist with the use of “Ms.” Prior to then, Ms. Roe would have been introduced as Mrs. James Roe, using her husbands name, or Miss Jane Roe if she came from a wealthy enough family not to be ostracized for her foolish little fantasy of wanting to be educated and do something down at the library where it’s no wonder she hasn’t met any truly eligible young men. Nowadays, of course, we just say, “Bill, Jane, John, do you guys know each other?” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/15 "2016-05-30T19:01:24Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > A lawyer is almost never addressed as “doctor [last name].” > > I’m a lawyer and I’ve never seen it done. The closest you get are some narcissistic lawyers saying in a not-quit-sure-if-they-are-joking tone that “you know I’m also a Doctor because a JD stands for …” The only place I’ve seen it done was in Hungary. I think their schools may be more rigorous, but they treated the US-schooled lawyers with the same respect. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/16 "2016-05-30T20:15:17Z")
slow ninja’ed ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/17 "2016-05-30T21:14:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Alan Smithee** : > > To actually answer the question, the traditional rule found in 20th century American etiquette guides by the likes of Emily Post and Judith “Miss Manners” Martin is that only physicians receive the courtesy title of “Doctor” in social (nonprofessional) settings. I would agree with that in a strict literal sense. Physicians receive a courtesy title of “doctor”. For people who have made a substantive and original contribution to the body of human knowledge, however, it’s not just a courtesy title like it is for physicians. They’re real doctors. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/18 "2016-05-30T21:33:58Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I see no reason to respond to an inquiry that uses a loaded fictitious name suggesting dishonesty to refer to a lawyer. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s called poisoning the well in your OP. **Moderating** If you feel that someone has violated the rule against professional jabs, please report it. However, this particular name is such a standard joke that I can’t really regard it as more than mild ribbing rather that a serious insult against lawyers. In other words, lighten up.😉 Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/19 "2016-05-30T21:38:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A JD degree is not a doctorate, despite the name. Incorrect. According to the ACE it is a first professional doctorate\* and is entitled to wear doctoral robes. It is simply not a terminal degree. Admittedly academic-levelwise it is a glorified master’s. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088/20 "2016-05-30T21:41:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I would agree with that in a strict literal sense. Physicians receive a courtesy title of “doctor”. For people who have made a substantive and original contribution to the body of human knowledge, however, it’s not just a courtesy title like it is for physicians. They’re real doctors. You’re being deliberately obtuse. A courtesy title is any title appended to a person’s name as a matter of politeness or etiquette. It is sometimes taken to exclude titles of nobility, at least in their full form. (“Lord” may be excepted from the exception, since it is typically used analogously to “Mister,” “Doctor,” etc.) It has absolutely nothing to do with whether the title was “earned” or not. Besides, the MD is an older and traditionally a higher degree than the PhD, both of which were considered lesser than the Doctor of Theology. (The modern MD is not considered higher than the PhD, but it is still the older than the modern PhD. I believe, though I may be mistaken, that the traditional “higher doctorate” MD is still given out on occasion by ancient British universities, but it is a different animal than the type of degree we’re talking about.) In any event the traditional rule of etiquette is that a physician is referred to socially as “Dr. Soandso” while an academic researcher is not, regardless of the degrees held or what you happen to think of them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-of-law-in-the-u-s-etiquette/756088.md?page=2)