# Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [December 16, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171 "2021-12-16T19:52:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/21 "2022-05-09T03:15:48Z")
There are a lot of spoilers already here (not all spoiled), so I added the (open spoilers) to the name. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2022, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/22 "2022-05-09T11:57:25Z")
Copied over from the “Movies seen recently” thread. – Saw the new Marvel film **Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness**. It was neither the hot mess that some describe it as nor the brilliantly complex story that others insist it is. In general I relaxed and enjoyed it - it’s very much the Cumberbatch, Olsen and CGI Show, but it keeps moving along. No real surprises plotwise other than the hamhanded way in which they shoehorned in the Inhumans, Fantastic Four, What If? and X-Men franchises, complete with dramatic pauses before each character appeared so that the audience could go woop-woop (which was noticeable when watched in a cinema in which the audience didn’t). That said, I would totally watch a standalone Captain Carter series because Hayley Atwell is awesome. Main gripe is that it felt very much like a mid-story film - it followed on from _Endgame_ and _WandaVision_ and makes no sense if you aren’t familiar with those, and leaves with lots of hooks for other films (including the obligatory mid-credits “here goes another adventure” scene). In that, it was somewhat unsatisfying. It also suffered from the common “The thing that turned the tide at the end could have been mentioned in the conversation at the beginning, thus preventing the vast destruction that happens throughout the film” problem, although obviously then there wouldn’t be a film. Other points: while I liked Xochitl Gomez well enough, her character was less of a character and more of a Macguffin. Also, watching someone named “America” make star-shaped portals was cheesy to the point of breaking suspension of disbelief. I don’t care if it was in the comic books; it just looked silly. Also, that music fight scene: clearly Sam Raimi just said to Elfman “You know what, Danny? Fuck it - go apeshit.” We laughed a lot at it. And finally, yes, the requisite cameo for all Raimi films is in there. Always fun. TL;DR: It’s a standard Marvel film. Not the best, not the worst, a lot of good scenes, a plot that probably shouldn’t be thought about too much, and a link to more and more and more films in future. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Was disappointed we didn’t get the “things just got a little out of hand” line from the trailers. Oh good - I thought I’d just missed it. > [@Quimby](#): > > Can anyone tell me what the native Wanda said to the Evil Wanda at the end? The dialogue was muddy in my theater and I couldn’t understand it. All three of us had the same problem - none of us caught it. I did look it up and what **icon** said is what I found. A weird sound glitch to have at a key emotional moment. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I did not see coming that: > > 1. Wanda is the villain and that she dies in the end. Yikes, they really sunk her character then. > 2. Strange would possess a dead body, use the demon-evil-spirits as his weapons, and full blown fight Wanda like that. This part was crazy and I can’t believe they did it. I’m pretty sure your first point is incorrect, given the Rule of Off-Camera Deaths. The second one I saw coming as it was too much of a Chekhov’s Gun not to be used later. Well, not _all_ of what happened, but that it would be used. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2022, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/23 "2022-05-10T00:20:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > the hot mess that some describe it Not even that good; more like a boring mess. Half a dozen good visuals and dialog so bad it could be by James Cameron. Every Marvel cliche forced into place even when they made no sense. Totally lacking the wit given Iron Man and Thor. My wife made the fascinating observation that the music battle may have been an homage to the Sorcerer’s Apprentice from Fantasia. Probably a stretch, but given that the whole movie was nothing but references to other shows, maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2022, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/24 "2022-05-10T08:39:18Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > My wife made the fascinating observation that the music battle may have been an homage to the Sorcerer’s Apprentice from Fantasia. Probably a stretch, but given that the whole movie was nothing but references to other shows, maybe not. I don’t see it. I still think it was a silly indulgence stuck in to let Elfman have fun scoring it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/25 "2022-05-10T19:38:39Z")
I gave it 4.5 out of 10 stars. Raimi should have been left out of the MCU. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/26 "2022-05-10T20:22:14Z")
Did the other Wanda have powers, or was that just the result of being possessed by the Scarlet Witch? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/27 "2022-05-11T00:19:48Z")
As someone who didn’t see WandaVision, I’m wondering why Wanda couldn’t just recreate her fantasy world with kids. She created a whole pastoral scene that was the equivalent. If one then why not the other? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/28 "2022-05-11T01:00:42Z")
I did see WandaVision and I had the same question during the film. Why couldn’t she just magic up her kids again and all live in her cabin in the middle of nowhere? She made Black Bolt’s mouth disappear so she can can change reality and matter into something else. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/29 "2022-05-11T09:04:42Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Did the other Wanda have powers, or was that just the result of being possessed by the Scarlet Witch? IIRC she did (note that she basically flew back through the doorway once she was no longer possessed), but she wasn’t full-on power-mad like Darkhold Wanda. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > As someone who didn’t see WandaVision, I’m wondering why Wanda couldn’t just recreate her fantasy world with kids. She created a whole pastoral scene that was the equivalent. If one then why not the other? Real answer: Because then we wouldn’t have a film. But I suppose she’d know it was a lie. Of course, her new existence with real boys would also be a lie, which the boys would see through requiring her to mess with their minds making it more of a lie etc etc etc, but as I said earlier, if that had been pointed out to her in the initial conversation (as it nearly was), we also wouldn’t have a film. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/30 "2022-05-11T17:00:28Z")
“Because we wouldn’t have a film” obviously was pasted on a wall above the writers’ computers. The whole backstory of America said that she couldn’t control her powers and multiversed whenever she got scared. And then she spent the entire film being scared without ever multiversing. Still, the omission was so gigantic and glaring that I assumed it had already been a plot point earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/31 "2022-05-11T20:30:10Z")
I wish they went a bit deeper with America’s backstory. Losing your parents in a portal because you got scared by a bee seems a little thin. Her comic counterpart has more of a story though I didn’t realize that once series called into question whether she was actually from another universe or not. > **[America Chavez | Fictional character biography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_Chavez#Fictional_character_biography)** > > America Chavez believed she was raised by her mothers in the Utopian Parallel, a reality that is out of time and in the presence of the being known as the Demiurge, whose presence she credited with imbuing her with superpowers. In her memory, when Chavez was approximately six years old, the Utopian Parallel was threatened by destruction. Chavez's mothers sacrificed themselves to seal the black holes, resulting in their particles being scattered across the Multiverse itself. Wanting to prove h Cha... ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/32 "2022-05-11T21:42:08Z")
I haven’t seen the movie. Did America take them to [the world with nothing but shrimp](https://buffy.fandom.com/wiki/Shrimp_worlds) like she did in _West Coast Avengers_? [![](https://i.imgur.com/4lEml70.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/4lEml70.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/33 "2022-05-14T23:09:25Z")
How does Wanda have those real kids in any universe? Who’s the father? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/34 "2022-05-15T00:52:04Z")
> [@Galactus](#): > > How does Wanda have those real kids in any universe? Who’s the father?.. Vision in her magic created world. ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2022, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/35 "2022-05-15T02:29:26Z")
That’s “our” universe. The one Wanda finds the kids are real. Wasn’t that the whole point of her search of the multi-verse? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/36 "2022-05-16T11:56:53Z")
Saw this last night, and the special effects are the most spectacular that I’ve ever seen. Even so, the story line dominated the movie and drove everything that occurred. Dr. Strange is a great character and is played to perfection by Cumberbatch! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/37 "2022-05-22T19:02:07Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > My wife made the fascinating observation that the music battle may have been an homage to the Sorcerer’s Apprentice from Fantasia. Probably a stretch, but given that the whole movie was nothing but references to other shows, maybe not. I felt it was an obvious homage to _Kung Fu Hustle_, which essentially had the same fight scene. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GQs5pniZSA) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/38 "2022-05-22T19:16:15Z")
I don’t follow all the rumors about the MCU so maybe what follows is old hat. I feel the overall direction of the MCU took a turn. I felt that original plan was to have next phase based around the Skrulls; the culmination of this phase was going to be about the Avengers fighting aliens who had the ability to mimic humans (including not knowing if some of their fellow Avengers might be Skrulls). The direction now seems to have changed. The Skrulls have faded into the background and the new overall story arc is the multiverse. I feel the reason for this shift was Disney’s acquisition of Fox. Disney now owns the rights to the X-Men and the Fantastic Four and wants to bring them in to the MCU. Rather than introduce them as new characters, they are going to bring in these characters through a conflict between the universe where the MCU characters have been living and the universe where the X-Men have been living and the universe where the Fantastic Four have been living. They will all be presented as established characters in separate universes. The outcome of this climatic movie will have them all living in the same now combined universe where they can appear together in future movies (probably fighting Skrulls). ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/39 "2022-05-22T19:26:45Z")
I saw it today and overall enjoyed it a lot. I liked the “What If?” crossovers and the Illuminati cameos. I assume that is the intro for the FF4 and X-Men into the MCU? The one major negative for me, plot-wise, was the whole Book of Vishanti bit. They played it up as a major plot point and then it turns out to be… nothing. Why bother? Just the visual effects I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/40 "2022-05-22T19:43:34Z")
It was too much to hope that it might be original. Truthfully, that battle was one of many things that reminded me of Roger Zelazny’s _Changeling_ and sequel _Madwand_, which had magicians battling by manipulating lines of power and stopping the opening of portals between worlds. It’s been 40 years so my memory has more holes than America Gomez could create but that hit me right away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171.md?page=3)