# Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [December 16, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171 "2021-12-16T19:52:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/41 "2022-05-22T20:10:08Z")
Nitpick: “Chavez” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/42 "2022-05-22T20:26:45Z")
Sorry. I warned you about my memory, though. Note to self: always check before you post. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/43 "2022-05-22T21:03:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Rather than introduce them as new characters, they are going to bring in these characters through a conflict between the universe where the MCU characters have been living and the universe where the X-Men have been living and the universe where the Fantastic Four have been living. They will all be presented as established characters in separate universes. I would like to see it done like this: > **[Twitter Tackles Deadpool and X-Men MCU Question with Amazing Results](https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/twitter-deadpool-x-men-mcu-ideas/)** > > A viral tweet has Marvel fans finding their own ways to answer the MCU's lingering Deadpool and X-Men integration question. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/44 "2022-05-22T21:04:14Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > The one major negative for me, plot-wise, was the whole Book of Vishanti bit. They played it up as a major plot point and then it turns out to be… nothing. Why bother? Just the visual effects I guess. I feel there is a deeper plot going on here. We’ve repeatedly seen the MCU version of Dr Strange has a serious personality flaw; he can’t resist turning to the dark side. He has a streak of arrogance that leads him to tell himself that he can stay in control of things (and often finds he can’t). I feel this was the basis of the Book of Vishanti and the Darkhold; these two books were presented as good and evil. And in the climax of the movie, Strange chose to use the evil book. (I think it’s worth noting that it was Wanda, not Strange, who chose to destroy the Darhold.) My speculation is we’re going to see future examples of Dr Strange dabbling in magic he shouldn’t be playing with and this might be what propels the story along. We saw a similar narrative regarding Tony Stark and technology. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/45 "2022-05-22T21:07:20Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Sorry. I warned you about my memory, though. You were probably thinking of the actress, Xochitl Gomez, who played the character. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/46 "2022-05-22T21:43:59Z")
Thanks for the save. You’re undoubtedly right. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/47 "2022-05-23T02:45:08Z")
I always think Abigail Nussbaum of Asking the Wrong Questions has [interesting takes](http://wrongquestions.blogspot.com/2022/05/recent-movie-doctor-strange-in.html) on the MCU. > [@](#): > > There’s a moment early in the new _Doctor Strange_ movie that seems to promise something genuinely dark. […] Was there, Nic asks, really no other way to defat Thanos than the one Strange chose? > > And for a moment, you feel it. The sheer existential terror, the crippling despair, of existing in a universe in which the very fabric of your reality is subject to the whims—or even the considered decisions—of not just cosmic beings like Thanos, but ordinary people like Strange. […] > > It’s perhaps because of all this forward motion that _Multiverse of Madness_ ends up shortchanging its characters, even when their growth and self-discovery are clearly the very heart of the movie. […] we don’t know Strange well enough to buy either his alternates’ fall to darkness or “our” version’s ability to withstand that pull. After six years and as many movies, he still feels like a collection of tics wrapped in a sentient cape. […] > > _Doctor Strange and Multiverse of Madness_ starts from a solid premise: take the two Avengers who are the most self-absorbed, the least driven by compassion, and challenge them to be a little less narcissistic. But you can’t do that when the fictional universe your story is set in has had narcissism woven into its very fabric. The problem isn’t that Strange can’t change—it’s that the world around him isn’t built to allow him to. […] > > Those earlier films understood that the essence of superheroes is that they love people. The MCU knew this back in the day—you see it in _Avengers_ or in _Iron Man 3_ . But somewhere along the way it lost that knowledge. At some point, the only people who matter became the ones with superpowers. And the result has been that the entire fictional universe started losing its soul. It will take more than one stylish movie to fix that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/48 "2022-05-23T11:42:40Z")
And then there’s this: > **[Deadpool Kidnaps & Becomes Scarlet Witch in Doctor Strange 2 Fan Poster](https://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-2-poster-deadpool-cameo-scarlet-witch/)** > > Deadpool becomes Scarlet Witch. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/49 "2022-05-23T11:48:03Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Was there, Nic asks, really no other way to defat Thanos than the one Strange chose? He could maybe have given him one of those Payaton bikes? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/50 "2022-05-23T13:55:42Z")
Listened to a good review of the movie over the weekend (Talk From Superheroes podcast) and they had some good points: one, Wanda is now irredeemable as a good guy, isn’t she? She has done Villain Stuff. How can they sweep that under the rug? And the plot of this film is very similar to _Spiderverse._ Thirdly, we don’t really learn anything _about_ America as a person. Strange is also apparently quite chill with the third eye, too, and Clea showing up could have been done in a thousand better ways. I did like Evil Strange and would love to see him come back, and the part where Wanda hijacks her other self was genuinely unsettling. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/51 "2022-05-23T14:43:11Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > one, Wanda is now irredeemable as a good guy, isn’t she? She has done Villain Stuff. How can they sweep that under the rug? Others in the MCU have been redeemed after doing Villain Stuff - Nebula, Loki, Black Widow… ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/52 "2022-05-23T14:49:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Others in the MCU have been redeemed after doing Villain Stuff - Nebula, Loki, Black Widow… True. I’d argue we never really saw Nebula herself do anything villainous onscreen, but I’d agree with the rest. I pity Hijacked Wanda, though-hopefully she doesn’t remember anything 616 Wanda did in her body, but I suspect she does. That’s going to really taint her mind. She needs at least one movie of a redemption arc before I’d buy her as an Avenger except in desperate circumstances, though I know it’s not up to me. And Krazinsky was a good pick as Reed Richards-give the fans what they want and if you want someone else as 616 Reed, you’re free to do so. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/53 "2022-05-23T14:54:02Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > we never really saw Nebula herself do anything villainous onscreen It was pretty damn obvious what Ronan meant by her “cleansing” the Kyln. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/54 "2022-05-23T15:12:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It was pretty damn obvious what Ronan meant by her “cleansing” the Kyln. Dangit. I hang up my geek hat in shame. I didn’t pay close attention during that section. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/55 "2022-05-23T17:15:09Z")
What is it about Marvel villains and their motivations? Wanda kills off multiverses because she’s sad that she doesn’t have kids. Thanos kills half of all life as a present to Lady Death - who was going to get them all anyway. Next: Doctor Doom slaughters all trees in the multiverses because he’s given an Impossible Burger instead of a Whopper. The Guardians of the Galaxy reband to avenge Groot. Cameo by Man-Thing to set up a new series on Disney+. Post-credit scene: Seeds. Seeds. Seeds! ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/56 "2022-05-28T02:25:01Z")
Dumb question, probably the result of not remembering Endgame very well. If Wanda is that much of a badass, why didn’t she just kick Thanos’s ass early on? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/57 "2022-05-28T03:23:41Z")
She did - right up until Thanos had his ship ‘rain fire’ on him/her. ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/58 "2022-05-28T11:57:17Z")
She also held Thanos off while she destroyed the mind gem in Vision, so yes, even in that movie she was shown to be a badass. In the MCU she had not fully realized to what extent she was powerful until the events of Wanda Vision when she was dealing with her grief. This is similar to what happened in the comics where she had a mental breakdown and essentially rewrote all of reality. `//i\\` ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/59 "2022-06-23T07:00:19Z")
Finally saw it…and for me the most touching part (And a part i haven’t seen anyone touch on!!) was the end where Strange and Wong admit they arn’t happy, but at least they have each other to make things better. Awwwww… ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171/60 "2022-06-23T08:19:01Z")
I watched it yesterday on Disney+. Better than I expected, but a little too long overall. America Chavez was more of a plot device than a character. I would have liked to have seen more about her. But I have to wonder if she’ll join some iteration of the _Young Avengers_ alongside Kate Bishop and Yelina Belova (alongside [Cassie “Stature” Lang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra_Lang?wprov=sfti1), Iron Lad, [Wiccan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiccan_(character)?wprov=sfti1), [Speed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_(character)?wprov=sfti1), et al. And, personally, I’d like to see [Squirrel Girl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_Girl?wprov=sfti1), too). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange-in-the-multiverse-of-madness-open-spoilers/956171.md?page=4)