# Doctor Strange **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 12, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526 "2016-08-12T03:51:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/41 "2016-08-28T21:25:23Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > FOR GOD’S SAKE PEOPLE! DON’T CLICK THE LINK! I, I saw it when it aired, I still have nightmares! Oh shush. I loved it for Jessica Walters. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/42 "2016-08-28T21:30:02Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > But . . . he’s naked! What happened to his boxers? > > Kids today. No appreciation for the classics. Will Thor fight him? I’d love a two part final pair of Thor films based on Simonson starting around…ohhh…shit I don’t know! But ends with Simonsons ending. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/43 "2016-08-31T00:04:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is also the first time they’re introducing actual magic (as opposed to Agardian super-tech) to the MCU… The summer’s Avenger movie was that bad? I realize I have yet to get around to seeing it (yeah, just slackin’ off) but I though they had The Scarlet Witch throwing hexes around or something. —G? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/44 "2016-08-31T00:15:35Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > The summer’s Avenger movie was that bad? I realize I have yet to get around to seeing it (yeah, just slackin’ off) but I though they had The Scarlet Witch throwing hexes around or something. > > —G? Scarlet witch’s powers have always been very vague in mcu, in the last movie they explained her powers were somehow connected to Vision’s mind stone. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/45 "2016-08-31T00:21:36Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > But . . . he’s naked! What happened to his boxers? > > Kids today. No appreciation for the classics. I agree. FFF requires ridiculous purple pants. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/46 "2016-08-31T01:41:23Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > but I though they had The Scarlet Witch throwing hexes around or something. Traditionally she has been considered a mutant whose power is to affect probabilities and warp reality in a way that simulates magic. She did get magical training from Agatha Harkness, but I believe it was just supposed to hone and increase her conscious control of her own natural abilities ( rather than them being essentially random ), rather than to teach her magic per se. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/47 "2016-08-31T02:47:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is also the first time they’re introducing actual magic (as opposed to Agardian super-tech) to the MCU. And Dr. Strange is a bit different from other heroes, in that who he is is tied very closely to what he does. You don’t need to know anything about radioactivity or spiders to understand Spider-Man, but Strange is specfically “the guy who handles magic crises,” so they’re going to have to set up what magic is and how it woris, Easiest way to explain that to the audience is to explain it to Strange. I choose to ignore that theres no magic in the Thor films. Odin enchants Mjoliner at will and lifts enchantments with tech? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/48 "2016-08-31T02:55:53Z")
Yeah, “to us magic and science are one and the same” does not mean “this isn’t magic”. And it’s really tough to pass off, say, Loki’s illusions as tech, especially when he can do them even in prison where he’s presumably stripped of any toys he might have. ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/49 "2016-08-31T04:20:04Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Isn’t it Hugo? I don’t think Adam Strange was a doctor. _Hugo_ Strange is a Batman villain. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/50 "2016-08-31T06:33:39Z")
[_Hugo_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBILmsGgF0U) is the Man of a Thousand Faces. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/51 "2016-08-31T22:45:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, “to us magic and science are one and the same” does not mean “this isn’t magic”. And it’s really tough to pass off, say, Loki’s illusions as tech, especially when he can do them even in prison where he’s presumably stripped of any toys he might have. I’m not entirely certain what the terms “science” or “magic” might even mean in this context. It’s more of an arbitrary label than an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/52 "2016-08-31T23:28:15Z")
Any consistently reproducible and observable phenomena is “science.” What they call “magic” is therefore just a set of physical laws that most humans have not yet mastered. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/53 "2016-09-01T00:50:36Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Any consistently reproducible and observable phenomena is “science.” “Are you ever _not_ going to fall for that?” ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/54 "2016-09-01T00:54:22Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > Any consistently reproducible and observable phenomena is “science.” What they call “magic” is therefore just a set of physical laws that most humans have not yet mastered. Except in comic books, science can and indeed has, been used to accomplish one-time unique effects. At the same time, some of what they call magic is quite replicable, by multiple people at different points in time, and/or may have nothing to do with the laws of the universe as such. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/55 "2016-09-01T03:05:41Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > The summer’s Avenger movie was that bad? I realize I have yet to get around to seeing it (yeah, just slackin’ off) but I though they had The Scarlet Witch throwing hexes around or something. > > —G? In the movies, Scarlet Witch’s powers are the result of scientific experimentation by Hydra, using Loki’s scepter from the first Avenger’s movie. > [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, “to us magic and science are one and the same” does not mean “this isn’t magic”. And it’s really tough to pass off, say, Loki’s illusions as tech, especially when he can do them even in prison where he’s presumably stripped of any toys he might have. The list of superheroes with purely science-derived powers who still don’t need any toys to use their powers is pretty long. You can strip Bruce Banner naked, and he can still turn into the Hulk. And the stuff involving Asgard usually tread pretty carefully around just coming out and saying, “Yeah, this shit is straight up supernatural.” Granted, when you get right down to it, _every_ superhero is basically magic. The fact that Iron Man doesn’t smash himself into a puddle in his iron boots when he makes a high-speed turn is just as “magical” as Mjollnir. But as difficult as it is to identify the difference between comic book science and magic is for us as readers, the comics themselves have always maintained that there’s an important distinction between the two. A recent comic had a team up between Doctor Strange and Beast, where Beast got all shirty about how he doesn’t like or trust magic. I suspect the Doctor Strange movie is going to try to maintain this distinction. Certainly, we’re seeing this opening the door to other supernatural-themed heroes in the MCU. Ghost Rider’s going to be in _Agents of SHIELD_ next season, and that guy’s technically undead. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/56 "2016-09-01T18:30:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Certainly, we’re seeing this opening the door to other supernatural-themed heroes in the MCU. Ghost Rider’s going to be in _Agents of SHIELD_ next season, and that guy’s technically undead. No, he’s possessed by a demon, not undead. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/57 "2016-09-01T22:37:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In the movies, Scarlet Witch’s powers are the result of scientific experimentation by Hydra, using Loki’s scepter from the first Avenger’s movie. Well, yes and no. He was performing an experiment, but I would argue there was nothing scientific about it in any sense. More below: > [@](#): > > But as difficult as it is to identify the difference between comic book science and magic is for us as readers, the comics themselves have always maintained that there’s an important distinction between the two. Here’s the way I see it. Comic book characters can be characterized into several groups by powerset, although it’s very common for characters to draw from two or more groups or subgroups. Skill (subgroup by skill): Skill-based heroes are usually described as being the “best” at something, absurdly tough by human standards, and armed to the teeth. Think the Punisher or Wildcat. (Captain America and Batman fit but are also are actually multi-category.) These characters win battles mostly by being smarter, meaner, or more agile. These guys tend to dodge a lot and then fire off some martial-arts maneuvers. Sometimes these skills amount to completely-impossible feats, however. Technology (Usually by some kind of tech theme, like “cold”): Tech-based heroes mostly use a specific kind of gadget or set of gadgets and mostly stick to that, though they’re usually good at something vaguely described as “science” or whatever. Iron Man is a classic tech hero: almost all his stuff is some version of the power suit. He isn’t utterly incompetent without it, but that’s what he does. (Heck, Iron Man 3 was an entire movie about him coming to understand that the suit was an extension of himself, but that he wasn’t limited by it.) Mutation: Mutation=based heroes are quasi-human, and their changes are either very physical or fairly obvious. This applies whether the hero in question just innately mutated or was exposed to some kind of weird radiation or whatever. They often have some kind of hyper-specific weaknesses as well. There’ve long been stories about enemies stealing the “Gamma energy” and preventing Banner from changing into the Hulk, or people using “mutant Scanners” to track the X-Men. This also covers super-powered aliens like Superman. An additional wrinkle is that it’s common to use Mutation-based powers as an excuse to have other powersets. Like Forge, Jean Grey, or Scarlet Witch. Psychic: Psychic powers are the general telepathy and stuff. Sometimes there’s a specific explanation, but there’re enough people who just have these for no reason to break it out separately. Magic: Magic-based characters may not cast “spells”. It kinda depends on the character, though most of them broadly fall into “has extensive knowledge of how the world really works” or “backed by an otherworldly entity or changed by magic”. I call it Mystic or Supernatural. Think Dr. Strange in the first case, Ghost Rider in the second. Wonder, Woman is also a Supernatural hero. Cosmic: The last, and most complex, category, is that of characters some kind of cosmic power. These are usually awesomely powerful and ridiculously flexible, which is one reason they tend to almost never use their full ability. Think the Flash. Marvel tends to lack these, partly because they’re pretty hard to actually write with dramatic heft. Anyway, if you try to split them into Science and Magic, you end with with fifty-bazillion science heroes, but that doesn’t really explain anything about them. This schema does, more or less. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/58 "2016-09-01T23:16:44Z")
> [@MacSpon](#): > > _Hugo_ Strange is a Batman villain. And Adam Strange is a DC hero. It’s called a joke son. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/59 "2016-09-02T02:32:15Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > And Adam Strange is a DC hero. It’s called a joke son. And both of them are Doctor Strange. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526/60 "2016-09-02T20:07:13Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > No, he’s possessed by a demon, not undead. It’s the Robbie Reyes version, who is both killed as part of his origin story, and then possessed by the spirit of his dead uncle, a Satan-worshiping serial killer. Although I think he’s actually resurrected, and not just reanimated, so he’s not really “undead,” just a guy who used to be dead, but got better. You know, like 90% of the people he meets on a professional basis. > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Here’s the way I see it. That’s a good breakdown, but my post wasn’t about the way we see these things as readers, it’s about how the characters see these things in the narrative. Marvel and DC have their characters, in the narrative, insist that there’s a fundamental difference between powers that come from science or have scientific explanations (from Stark’s arc-reactor powered armor to Superman’s yellow-sun powered physique) and powers that are magical or supernatural in origin (like Doctor Strange’s spells, or the helmet of Dr. Fate). The distinction doesn’t make real-world sense, because all of these characters regularly break the laws of physics in ways that could only be described as “supernatural,” but it’s still a distinction maintained within the fiction itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-strange/762526.md?page=4)