# Doctor Who 7x14: The Name of the Doctor **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 18, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695 "2013-05-18T19:57:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/41 "2013-05-19T20:18:21Z")
I liked it, and agree it was the best episode of this half-season at least. While I was hoping for better from Moffat this season, I’ll still take him any day over RTD. Many of the best eps in RTD’s reign were written by Moffat. RTD’s stories were often bombastic and climactic, but tended to be a little shallow. Likes: I’ve always liked River, and I liked how she was used in this ep. It could be a fitting final episode for her, but I won’t be sorry if we see her again. The explanation of how Clara became the impossible girl. A noble, self-sacrificing act to save the Doctor. John Hurt! I’m very intrigued to see how they use him. Dislikes: The Great Intelligence’s henchmen/extra bodies. They just looked a little too derivative. Jenny’s dead! ☹ Wait–let’s just jumpstart her… there, all’s well! :rolleyes: (I like Jenny, but if you’re going to kill a character to raise the stakes, she was a good choice and you should have left her dead.) I do tend to agree that the show has become too focused on the Doctor himself (and his companions), when it should be more about him saving others. It’s going to be a long wait until November! ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/42 "2013-05-19T21:44:20Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I loved her interaction with the first Doctor. Too bad they couldn’t work Susan in there. Oops, nevermind. He is seen sneaking her into the TARDIS.:o [Related:](http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-05-18/doctor-who-the-name-of-the-doctor-review) > [@Radio Times](#): > > Note, too, that when the scene is repeated and extended towards the end, Clara is doing the Doctor one of the biggest favours of his life: “Steal this one,” she urges. “The navigation system’s knackered but you’ll have much more fun.” This conflicts with The Doctor’s Wife, when the spirit of the Tardis (Suranne Jones) claimed to have chosen the Doctor. Time has been rewritten. > [@Don\_Draper](#): > > They also still haven’t definitively answered the question as to who gave modern day Clara the phone number to the “St. John” phone in the TARDIS. Clara didn’t seem to recognize River when they had the conference call, and didn’t say anything like “I remember you from the shoppe” that would’ve definitively asserted it was thanks to River. I guess it’s still possible (like I had expected) that Clara herself from a future point in time gave her the number. Excellent point. I forgot about that. I’m sure it will get addressed. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/43 "2013-05-19T22:39:29Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > I was puzzled at the end when the Doctor kept saying (paraphrasing) “just this ONE TIME let ME save YOU, rather than the other way around!” Huh? The Doctor saved Clara from being downloaded by the Great Intelligence twice, pulled her away from the soul-eating ‘voice’ of Akhaten, saved her from Sardek, and rescued her from Mrs. Peel’s bell jar, and stopped the Cybermen from advancing on her. Maybe Clara has come through for him a number of times, but it’s not like she’s perpetually pulling his fat out of the fire. He’s referring to the Dalek Clara and Olde Tyme Clara who died saving him (or at least he was unable to save). ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/44 "2013-05-20T01:04:58Z")
His name is “Doctor” - that is the name he chose - his other ‘name’ and secret (John Hurt) did thing not in ‘the name of the doctor’… see, its all very namey wamey in a bannana nana foo fanna name thing. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/45 "2013-05-20T01:21:55Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > John Hurt! This! > [@](#): > > Jenny’s dead! ☹ Wait–let’s just jumpstart her… there, all’s well! :rolleyes: (I like Jenny, but if you’re going to kill a character to raise the stakes, she was a good choice and you should have left her dead.) What? And wreck the obvious spinoff? ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/46 "2013-05-20T01:41:29Z")
I think I have every extant episode dl’ed somewhere, so I guess I’ll be watching those over the summer. I threaten to do that every year and end up watching anime, but I think this year I need to do it. ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/47 "2013-05-20T02:40:44Z")
“On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer…a question will be asked.” Well, the question was asked, but he failed to answer… ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/48 "2013-05-20T02:53:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I thought it was MacGuffin. I would have gone with “Slartibartfast”, as an homage to Douglas Adams. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/49 "2013-05-20T03:01:05Z")
> [@MacSpon](#): > > “On the fields of Trenzalore, at the fall of the eleventh, when no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer…a question will be asked.” Well, the question was asked, but he failed to answer… It says neither that the question must be answered immediately nor that the doctor must be the one to answer it. Therefore, the River Song tied to Clara via the dream channel must be a pre-library Song and qualifies as a living being for the purposes of the, for lack of a better word, geas. Alternatively, while they were at the fields of Trenzalore, this was not the fall of the 11th or at least, not a fall accompanied by an impetus to answer questions. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/50 "2013-05-20T04:07:53Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I’m no anti-RTD person. The best three consecutive weeks of Who in its history happened on his watch - the two Human Nature episodes and Blink. True. Although I would say that what made “Human Nature/Family of Blood” memorable was mainly down to David Tennant’s acting. The last scene of him as John Smith, saying goodbye to Joan, is simply the very best demonstration of the craft of acting I’ve ever seen on _Doctor Who_. On the other hand, “Blink” was due to fantastic acting matched with brilliant writing. The acting was Carey Mulligan (and to a lesser extent, Findlay Robertson), and the writing was…Steven Moffat. ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/51 "2013-05-20T04:46:54Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > It says neither that the question must be answered immediately nor that the doctor must be the one to answer it. Therefore, the River Song tied to Clara via the dream channel must be a pre-library Song and qualifies as a living being for the purposes of the, for lack of a better word, geas. > > Alternatively, while they were at the fields of Trenzalore, this was not the fall of the 11th or at least, not a fall accompanied by an impetus to answer questions. The wording was that “no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer”. The Doctor failed to answer. Simple as that. And River Song was not, in fact, a living creature. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/52 "2013-05-20T06:22:53Z")
So? If the doctor had answered then River Song would have failed to which leaves us with the same problem. As it is, failing the introduction of some mystical force endemic to Trenzalore, I can only assume the insurance against lying or stalling was simply that only the answer would open the doors and only the opening of the doors would save Jenny, Strax, Vastra, and Clara. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/53 "2013-05-20T07:13:36Z")
Here’s my guess about John Hurt’s Doctor: He’s the arse end of the 8th incarnation. All we’ve seen of the 8th was the TV movie. What do we actually _know_ (as in cannon, not the books) of the later adventures of Dr 8? My guess is that Dr 8, as played by John Hurt, is the genocidal Doctor of the Time War, the secret shame of the Doctor and the reason Dr 9 was such a morose git. ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/54 "2013-05-20T07:36:23Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Considering that David Tennant will be back for the 50th Anniversary episode, I don’t recall seeing him in any of those Clara flashbacks. I saw every Doctor but the 8th and the 10th. Tardis Wiki says that the 10th Doctor’s flashback scene, which took place in the Library, isn’t in the episode shown on BBC America or the iTunes one. The 8th Doctor is a blink and you’ll miss it scene. At the beginning of the episode, just after the 3rd Doctor flashback, the 8th Doctor runs past Clara just before you see the 2nd Doctor run past her. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/55 "2013-05-20T08:30:12Z")
Ah yes, the Tenth Doctor scene was the shot that reminded me of the Library, but not enough for me to realise that’s what it actually was, as he’s not obvious in the shot. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/56 "2013-05-20T09:39:25Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > My guess is that Dr 8, as played by John Hurt, is the genocidal Doctor of the Time War, the secret shame of the Doctor and the reason Dr 9 was such a morose git. I think he’s supposed to be, but I don’t understand. We know what he did and why he did it. What’s the secret? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/57 "2013-05-20T11:25:07Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Here’s my guess about John Hurt’s Doctor: He’s the arse end of the 8th incarnation. All we’ve seen of the 8th was the TV movie. What do we actually _know_ (as in cannon, not the books) of the later adventures of Dr 8? > > My guess is that Dr 8, as played by John Hurt, is the genocidal Doctor of the Time War, the secret shame of the Doctor and the reason Dr 9 was such a morose git. > [@Nobody](#): > > I think he’s supposed to be, but I don’t understand. We know what he did and why he did it. What’s the secret? Which is exactly why I _don’t_ think he’s the Doctor that ended the Time War. We’ve heard the Doctor refer to that a number of times: " ‘Fear me, I’ve killed thousands of Time Lords.’ ‘Fear _me_, I’ve killed them all.’ " He’s appalled by what he had to do, but he ultimately thinks it was the only course. No, I think that the Hurt Doctor is the very original Doctor, who committed some horrible crime for which he’s been atoning ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/58 "2013-05-20T11:36:46Z")
> [@Jormungandr](#): > > Tardis Wiki says that the 10th Doctor’s flashback scene, which took place in the Library, isn’t in the episode shown on BBC America or the iTunes one. The 8th Doctor is a blink and you’ll miss it scene. At the beginning of the episode, just after the 3rd Doctor flashback, the 8th Doctor runs past Clara just before you see the 2nd Doctor run past her. Am I right that we saw the 9th doctor walk by very quickly, wearing his leather jacket…and obviously a stand-in actor? Or was he shown via old-footage and I missed it? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/59 "2013-05-20T11:59:32Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Considering that David Tennant will be back for the 50th Anniversary episode, I don’t recall seeing him in any of those Clara flashbacks. I saw every Doctor but the 8th and the 10th. > [@Jormungandr](#): > > Tardis Wiki says that the 10th Doctor’s flashback scene, which took place in the Library, isn’t in the episode shown on BBC America or the iTunes one. The 8th Doctor is a blink and you’ll miss it scene. At the beginning of the episode, just after the 3rd Doctor flashback, the 8th Doctor runs past Clara just before you see the 2nd Doctor run past her. I’m 90% sure it was in the iTunes one, because I was sure I saw the 10th, though I didn’t get that he was in Cal’s Library until I read the wiki. ETA: I’m glad that Clara appears to be coming back, she’s definitely my favorite companion – I almost want to say “by far”. I could do with another Doctor though, Matt Smith does a good job, and his personality is okay, but there’s something about him that kind of annoys me in weird inarticulable ways the 9th and 10th didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dioptre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/278dde/32.png) [@Dioptre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dioptre)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695/60 "2013-05-20T12:06:39Z")
This probably isn’t a very original thought, but by creating these time-related plot arcs, the writers (and it isn’t just Moffatt, RTD did this too) guarantee that no explanation will be a good payoff for the audience. One of the quaint charms of Dr Who is the total inconsistency with respect to the rules of time travel. With no rules there is no clever solution that is going to make sense than any other arbitrary solution. We won’t be impressed - at best mildly interested based on how much we care about the characters. If John Hurt has something to do with the Time War, there’s nothing left to be revealed except the detail of what happened. If we knew the exact rules at play, it would be a Big Reveal exactly how the Doctor got into a situation where wiping out all of the Time Lords was the only solution. There can’t be a satisfactory answer to this, though, just an arbitrary declaration related to timey-wimey stuff - which we already have without the meaningless detail. I was actually interested in the Clara plotline (I think I’m in a minority there), and I was pleasantly suprised that we didn’t have a hand-wave explanation based on some new rule of the universe. There’s actually plot integrity in their being nothing special about Clara, because the Clara the Doctor was investigating was the original. Presumably there _would_ have been strangeness if he’d done the same investigations of any of the copies. The idea that the copies were made using a brand new property of time travel never previously mentioned? Meh. I like River Song as a character, but her whole plotline suffers from the same effect. The writers can make anything happen with her, just by inventing new wrinkles of time travel. Whatever does happen is never going to feel satisfying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-7x14-the-name-of-the-doctor/658695.md?page=4)