# Doctor Who "Dark Water" and "Death in Heaven" (spoilers after it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906 "2014-10-29T14:24:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/81 "2014-11-09T03:37:51Z")
So no spoiler boxes needed now? Good. Someone please explain exactly why Missie needed/wanted Clara with the Doctor all along, especially given that Clara was responsible for saving all of the Doctor’s pasts? Honestly this seems like an add-on … the original thought may have been River but they decided to let her drop completely instead and threw this in as the alternative. Shame they killed off Missy … a good crazy one she. And Osgood gone? No twist? Noooooo! ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/82 "2014-11-09T03:41:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Shame they killed off Missy … a good crazy one she. She ain’t dead. She teleported. Literally **every** disintegration effect in the last two episodes was orange, while Missy’s “disintegration” was blue – exactly the same color as when she teleported earlier in the episode. Not to mention the same color as the “shredders” (teleporters) in the bank heist episode. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/83 "2014-11-09T04:31:34Z")
Ah. I’ll accept that although her timing it with Cyber-Brig’s firing seems hard to accept. Osgood though … was hers orange? I am afraid to playback and look. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/84 "2014-11-09T04:55:33Z")
I figured that she either teleported, or had her mind uploaded to the Gallifreyan hard drive, and then into another body. One way or another the Master/Mistress will be back. He/She is never gone for good. Also, I was a little disappointed that the Brigadier shot at Missy to save the Doctor. If he would have been the one to fire it could be the start of what leads to the Valeyard. Oh well, I’m doubting that Moffat will introduce him. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/85 "2014-11-09T07:35:33Z")
Disappointed. In this episode and in the series. So many characters had to carry the idiot ball to make the episode work. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/86 "2014-11-09T08:14:33Z")
So wait, unless time gets rewritten Danny needs to be alive because he has a time traveling grandson, or great grandson. Also, I wonder if they’ll go back to explain why Clara had all those post-it notes in the scene where she first called Danny. I think they’ll clear that up in the Christmas special or next season/series. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/87 "2014-11-09T09:09:25Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Also, I wonder if they’ll go back to explain why Clara had all those post-it notes in the scene where she first called Danny. She was going to tell him everything she lied about, as per the Forest episode. The Post-It notes were just organization and getting her thoughts straight. I thought that was the implication at least. ---
**Author:** ![Galwegian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galwegian/32/3426_2.png) [@Galwegian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galwegian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/88 "2014-11-09T09:39:59Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Speaking of Coleman, anyone notice she got top billing in the opening credits? Yes, and did you spot her eyes in the opening sequence replacing Capaldi’s? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/89 "2014-11-09T10:02:08Z")
I wonder if they did that to make us buy that thing about her being the Doctor, even though without deceptive trailer editing it was pretty obvious she was bluffing. I say this despite making the joke numerous times this season that Clara was secretly the Doctor all along. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/90 "2014-11-09T10:03:50Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > So wait, unless time gets rewritten Danny needs to be alive because he has a time traveling grandson, or great grandson. Also, I wonder if they’ll go back to explain why Clara had all those post-it notes in the scene where she first called Danny. > > I think they’ll clear that up in the Christmas special or next season/series. I was hoping that Danny was not only merely dead, but really most sincerely dead. But I’m guessing he’s only mostly dead. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/91 "2014-11-09T10:29:50Z")
Loved Missy Poppins with her umbrella. Loved the breathy “Happy birthday… Mister President”. Yup, she teleported - her button glowed blue before the rest of her, a mini device? Like I said, they acting was spectacular. Missy was brilliantly evilly and bananas 😉 Shame they had such an all-over-the-place script to work with. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/92 "2014-11-09T11:08:16Z")
Great acting, brilliant scenes, stupid everything connecting the scenes. With how this season and the previous went, I suspect that we’re going to find out that Moffat has been suffering alcoholism and that people have been doing their best to get material out of him and hold it all together. The quality and style of writing has just been too all-over-the-place, and the amount of stupid that’s made it to screen too egregious. A pity because, as this episode shows, the man has some great ideas and knows how to really milk a moment for everything it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/93 "2014-11-09T13:50:05Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > So wait, unless time gets rewritten Danny needs to be alive because he has a time traveling grandson, or great grandson. … Maybe Danny was so big on no secrets from Clara because he had one of his one … a kid somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/94 "2014-11-09T13:52:18Z")
I never could figure out why anyone thought Clara was related to Orson at all, he looks like Danny and carries his last name, therefore she must be his grandmother?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/95 "2014-11-09T14:24:33Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I never could figure out why anyone thought Clara was related to Orson at all, he looks like Danny and carries his last name, therefore she must be his grandmother?😕 He said it was old family lore that his grandmother (or great grandmother?) was a time traveller, which hinted at Clara. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/96 "2014-11-09T14:42:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Maybe Danny was so big on no secrets from Clara because he had one of his one … a kid somewhere? Facebook theory is that Clara was going to tell the Doctor she was pregnant at the end, when he assumed she was marrying Danny. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/97 "2014-11-09T15:29:24Z")
That seems reasonable - to be revealed in Christams special. At least this kid wasn’t concieved in the Tardis … as much as I loved River we don’t need a River 2! ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/98 "2014-11-09T20:03:14Z")
Well that was piss poor, That the first part was pretty good made it even more of a let down. ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/99 "2014-11-09T22:01:59Z")
Who caught the name of the funeral parlor? (Talk about a companion who got a bad send-off!) ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906/100 "2014-11-09T22:25:55Z")
> [@Cinnamon\_Imp](#): > > Facebook theory is that Clara was going to tell the Doctor she was pregnant at the end, when he assumed she was marrying Danny. Apparently one of Clara’s post-its said “three months”, which has some fans a-twitter. I thought there was some gap between Danny dying and Clara taking the Tardis hostage, though. Would it have been enough that Clara would start to show? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-dark-water-and-death-in-heaven-spoilers-after-it-airs/702906.md?page=6)