# Doctor Who has become unwatchable **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557 "2014-01-12T04:07:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/1 "2014-01-12T04:07:45Z")
Watched Baker as a kid on PBS, long time fan, loved the reboot, loved most of 10 and 11 with some concerns.(Every finale had to be saving the omni-verse! Crisis fatigue) As far as I am concerned the show went totally off the rails with the 7th season finale, the show no longer had any sense of drama or even continuity. It was like a self referential fan fiction, nothing was taken serious. How did Clara and the Doctor get out of his timestream? Who cares! The Doctor has to save the universe 5 times in the next episode, no real drama no real threat. What is the point? The show is supposed to be more than goofy fluff(which can be done good see Dinosaurs on a Spaceship). Every episode now needs Daleks and Cybermen, twice a season is far too little! Can we get an angel wearing a santa hat into the episode? Can you imagine the show doing an episode like Dalek now? How about Blink or Midnight? The show has to take itself “serious” on some level or the whole thing collapses, this isn’t continuity bitching. The tone is just so meta now I can’t imagine a serious episode. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/2 "2014-01-12T04:12:18Z")
Sure I can. Why couldn’t I imagine it? And why wouldn’t the creators do it? Without data that was just a rant. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/3 "2014-01-12T04:29:13Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Can you imagine the show doing an episode like Dalek now? How about Blink or Midnight? Unlike most people, I don’t list _Midnight_ or _Blink_ very high on my favourites list, but I think _The Lodger_ and its sequel _Closing Time_, _Cold War_, _Hide_, and _The Day of the Doctor_ are all fantastic. I also very much enjoyed _Let’s Kill Hitler_ and _A Christmas Carol_. Furthermore, many people list _The Girl Who Waited_ and _The Doctor’s Wife_ amongst their favourites. Almost every episode has a few fans amongst adults, and there’s none that the kids don’t adore. It’s still got a lot of energy left in it, especially now there’s a new Doctor this year. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/4 "2014-01-12T04:34:03Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Sure I can. Why couldn’t I imagine it? And why wouldn’t the creators do it? Without data that was just a rant. What data? It is a TV show, do you like how it is going? Well then tell me about it!🙂 Hell I loved the prequel episode to the 50th special, and liked a lot of the 50th special(maybe should have been two episodes). The Christmas special made me bored of Doctor Who, I had to come back to it. That took a while to digest and face up to, I think the lazy writing was the worst(Gallifrey back in action as a deus ex machina one episode later). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/5 "2014-01-12T05:40:33Z")
Feh. Transitional episodes always suck. Look at The End of Time. It blew chunks and was a big Tennant ego stroke. The advantage that Doctor Who has is that nobody plays the Doctor for all that long, and a new Doctor forces the writers to up their game for a while. After a few series the writers get lazy and the Doctor regenerates and it starts over again. As a contrast look at Psych. James Roday’s ego has grown too large, the writers cater to him instead of a proper story, and the show has started to suck. Except they can’t kill Shawn Spencer without destroying the show. The folks at Doctor Who have that luxury, so I have reason to hope it will get better. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/6 "2014-01-12T06:21:47Z")
That, and while certain classic episodes and story lines are remembered the stinkers have faded out of memory - and there were definitely some stinkers in the past. Hey, if you don’t like the show don’t watch it. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/7 "2014-01-12T07:00:45Z")
I agree with the OP and put the blame squarely on Moffat. He somehow sucked all the fun out of Doctor Who. Hopefully with Peter Capaldi the tone of the show will switch, but it’ll still be Moffat running things. Moffat’s first season was good but then he just took it off the rails. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/8 "2014-01-12T12:07:16Z")
It’s a kids show, for kids. Don’t like it? Move on. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/9 "2014-01-12T14:28:37Z")
Too much reliance on Daleks and Cybermen I get. It takes away from their impact. And the Killer Angels should have been on one episode only. They were very effective as a one off but they really don’t make much sense if you look too deep at them. Other than that I disagree. I’m still enjoying it. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/10 "2014-01-12T15:13:28Z")
I had such a lot of faith in Moffat, and I’m so disappointed. He just gets so tangled up in ideas and concepts that he forgets about writing an interesting, cohesive story. Same could be said about Sherlock, every episode becomes more reliant on fast editing instead of actual plot. I’m leaving with Matt Smith. Good luck to mister Capaldi. ---
**Author:** ![Sefton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Sefton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sefton)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/11 "2014-01-12T15:17:17Z")
I agree with the OP. Doctor Who has gone from being a sci-fi show with action elements to being an action show in a sci-fi setting. There’s too much adrenaline and too little story. I feel the same way about _Sherlock_. The acting and production values are wonderful, but the plots go off the rails. At some point, it almost becomes tongue-in-cheek. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/12 "2014-01-12T15:54:03Z")
> [@grude](#): > > As far as I am concerned the show went totally off the rails with the 7th season finale, the show no longer had any sense of drama or even continuity. Aaaaaaaaannnd you lost me. Look, I understand that some people don’t like the recent direction of the show. And some of the criticisms I’ve read have been totally applicable even if I personally am not bothered by them. But to complain that the show no longer has any sense of drama or continuity? Let’s take the second one first. Your statement implies that the show once **had** a sense of continuity. And I’m going to need you to tell me when that was exactly. The classic series had three mutually exclusive explanations for Atlantis. The Cyberman and Dalek timelines makes River Song’s look straightforward and obvious. The Doctor himself only seemed to have one heart until he had two. And I still don’t know what exactly became of Peri. Not that anyone cares, but still… As for drama, I think the problem is more in the other direction. That is to say, now the show cares more for big dramatic moments than it cares for sense or plot or even for characterization. Again, I’m not saying there’s nothing to complain about in the Moffat version of the show. But your specific complaints? I’m not seeing it. And I’m not bothered by it either. As usual I’m just going to go along for the ride and have fun. And pretty soon we’ll get a new producer and/or a new Doctor and/or a new companion and on and on. And somehow, I bet I’ll be able to watch it. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/13 "2014-01-12T16:06:34Z")
I think the Doctor has the same problem as Superman: he’s become too powerful and too all-knowing, and so it’s difficult to come up with reasonable plots. For a story to be interesting, there has to be some sort of challenge, and who can challenge the Doctor? Well, daleks, so they tend to reappear a lot. I agree that more new villains would be nice, rather than recycling the past aliens all the time. Some of the Matt Smith plots have been very twisted and (for me) hard to follow (if they’re there at all), including over-much reliance on memory of past shows and past characters. That said, they’re still a fun ride. I don’t think the show ever “took itself seriously.” We started watching in Tom Baker days, and it was always more a fun romp than a sci-fi drama. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/14 "2014-01-12T16:18:33Z")
> [@Sefton](#): > > I agree with the OP. Doctor Who has gone from being a sci-fi show with action elements to being an action show in a sci-fi setting. There’s too much adrenaline and too little story. > > I feel the same way about _Sherlock_. The acting and production values are wonderful, but the plots go off the rails. At some point, it almost becomes tongue-in-cheek. I think you articulated it better than I did, it does become tongue in cheek. Almost like the only way to watch the show is to assume it is winking at you, almost breaking the fourth wall. And then there will be an enormous plot dump you don’t even have the time to digest or think about before more nonsense is going on and wait a minute how is this new character flying the TARDIS when it was a big deal River Song could like a season ago? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/15 "2014-01-12T17:10:07Z")
Well, I suspect that Moffat intends that to be a clue for later on. ---
**Author:** ![Qwisp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qwisp/32/397_2.png) [@Qwisp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwisp)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/16 "2014-01-12T17:19:26Z")
Doctor Who is like the weather.Don’t like it? Wait around for a bit and it’ll change. Different Doctors,different writers, different producers. It is always changing and not everyone will like everything. Doctor Who is one program you can count on to change things up. It’s always been that way and always will. I’ve been a fan for over forty years. I haven’t loved everything but I’ve know some stories are better than others, and it’s just a matter of time before another masterpiece is made. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/17 "2014-01-12T18:18:28Z")
Oh, you mean “Tales of Sexual Tourism in Space and Time with your host Mr. Who PhD?” It’s far from unwatchable. There are a number of things that bug me though. They find it hard to write a story where the Doctor isn’t the center of the universe or a companion doesn’t become god like. The idea of a person traveling backwards in time relative to the Doctor sounds like a cool idea, except I hate River. To make things worse, River seems to be the one character we will never be free from. Also, as much as I love it, sonic screwdriver overload. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/18 "2014-01-12T22:15:52Z")
It became unwatchable for me a while back when it was all about the cute little redhead girl and her alien friend. The doctor became second banana on his own show! ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/19 "2014-01-13T17:00:51Z")
The endless Daleks, Cybermen and Weeping Angels are a bit dull. My main problem is the crappy writing for the obstacles and disasters, though. See the Christmas special: [spoiler]“All these enemies are around me, and I’m alone! There is _nothing_ I can do except what I’m doing right now - I’ve tried really hard to think of alternatives before I gave up, honest! Oh wait, no, it’s fine! I’ve just been given powers with nothing but a token explanation that I can handily use to instantly solve the problem!” Replace “been given powers” with “thought of reversing something in a machine”, “using my sonic screwdriver” or “some concept that’s basically magic, that makes no sense and has never been used before or after, e.g. lots of people thinking about the Doctor = reinvigorated Doctor” for the resolutions to many of the episodes.[/spoiler] It’s easy to come up with exciting “OMG how is he going to get out of this one?” scenarios but a very different thing to come up with a satisfying, non-deus ex machina resolution. And if it’s not impossible-to-escape problems with weak solutions, it’s easy-to-escape “tragedies”: The Doctor and River Song supposedly have timelines travelling in opposite directions, so from River’s point of view every time she meets the Doctor, he knows her less than the last time. Considering that both of them are time travellers and regularly break all sorts of “unbreakable rules” in the very episodes they first mentioned them, considering that the Doctor regularly insists a fate is inescapable until, suddenly, actually happy ending, how are we supposed to believe that this is an insurmountable obstacle to their happiness? Oh, and the Doctor is always about to die FOR REALS THIS TIME. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/20 "2014-01-13T17:11:36Z")
Yeah, I would say that the show has lost a sense of weightiness. Although the doctor’s losses have become larger and grander in scope, they seem smaller and more superficial in terms of emotional resonance compared against losses with Eccleston and Tennant. Amy, Rory and Clara really do not seem to exist outside of their relationship with the doctor and I think it makes them weaker characters. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557.md?page=2)