# Doctor Who has become unwatchable **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557 "2014-01-12T04:07:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/41 "2014-01-15T12:35:33Z")
Capaldi is a brilliant actor but the problem is Moffat. So long as Moffat is the showrunner, I won’t be watching any more Doctor Who. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/42 "2014-01-15T13:39:19Z")
I’ve been into Who for years and I own almost all the original series on DVD - must be about 100 DVDs by now. But I am enjoying new Who more now that Moffat has taken over. I enjoyed seasons 1 and 2, but then RTD utterly botched seasons 3 and 4 for me. There was hardly an episode that went by which did not make me vent my spleen at the schmaltzy, sentimental innuendo-ridden deus-ex-machina that the Doctor had become. The specials did not help, either. Then Moffat took over, and suddenly it was different. Seasons 5 and 6 were great. There were still some dud episodes, but none of them made me cringe that my favourite show was having its heart torn out. Season 7 has been up and down and I think my main criticism is the tendency of the writer to _rush, rush, rush_ everything so that the whole episode barely stops for breath. They need to take a good look at the success of the original series and how good pacing and building up of suspense can make an awesome story. Of course there are plenty of examples of padding in the old series too, but there’s a sweet spot in there somewhere. The recent specials have been…alright. Certainly not how I would have done the 50th or the Christmas special, but honestly I can let them go. Perhaps it is time for Moffat to move on, and let someone else take over. But are the criticisms of the show entirely down to him? Absolutely not. He loves the show and has great respect for its heritage, but is also terrified (justly) of going too far down the fanwank route which killed it in the 80s. Compared to most of RTD’s bilge, Moffat is Shakespeare. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/43 "2014-01-15T13:51:53Z")
[QUOTE=Malden Capell;17016347…Perhaps it is time for Moffat to move on, and let someone else take over. But are the criticisms of the show entirely down to him? Absolutely not. He loves the show and has great respect for its heritage, but is also terrified (justly) of going too far down the fanwank route which killed it in the 80s. Compared to most of RTD’s bilge, Moffat is Shakespeare.[/QUOTE] I actually like much of RTD’s stuff; I read [The Writer’s Tale](http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Writers-Final-Chapter-ebook/dp/B00B2N5GQC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389793577&sr=8-2&keywords=davies+doctor+who), in which I learned all the administrative work involved in being a showrunner. Art is not enough! Every season of _Doctor Who_ has had its ups & downs. Both modern showrunners have worked hard–but neither has been perfect. I really don’t get the Total Moffat Hate. It’s driving some “former” _Sherlock_ fans to try to choke down _Elementary_! (“Well, that episode didn’t suck as much as it could have.”) Moffat will move on eventually. Who would be next? ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/44 "2014-01-15T13:54:44Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I actually like much of RTD’s stuff; I read [The Writer’s Tale](http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Writers-Final-Chapter-ebook/dp/B00B2N5GQC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389793577&sr=8-2&keywords=davies+doctor+who), in which I learned all the administrative work involved in being a showrunner. Art is not enough! I want to pick up seasons 3 and 4 on DVD but the sheer displeasure I had while they were on the air holds me back right now. Maybe if I do watch them a lot of the bad memories will calm with the passing, but I am worried it won’t and I’ll consider it £30 wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/45 "2014-01-15T13:57:37Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I agree - much as I like both Smith and Cumberbatch, I feel the characters of the Doctor and Sherlock have both almost turned into Captain Jack Sparrow - a clowning, fast-talking, half-mad jester, flailing about on screen in a supposedly entertaining manner, but almost in spite of the plot, rather than because of it. And two of the most enduring characters invented by Moffat are\*\* Captain Jack\*\* Harkness and Sally **Sparrow**.\* COINCIDENCE!?\* ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/46 "2014-01-15T14:00:51Z")
The last episode I watched was the one where Matt Smith and the girl that kept dying had to sing that sun monster to sleep. It was a little too “We are the world” for me. The show jumped the shark for me. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/47 "2014-01-15T14:04:04Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > I want to pick up seasons 3 and 4 on DVD but the sheer displeasure I had while they were on the air holds me back right now. Maybe if I do watch them a lot of the bad memories will calm with the passing, but I am worried it won’t and I’ll consider it £30 wasted. Here in the USA we’ve got Netflix. For a small monthly fee, we can stream all of modern _Who_ except the last few episodes. (BBCamerica usually has he most recent stuff On Demand for cable customers.) Netflix also has a good selection of Classic _Who_… ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/48 "2014-01-15T14:16:56Z")
I know, but I’m a _collector_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/49 "2014-01-15T15:51:21Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > The last episode I watched was the one where Matt Smith and the girl that kept dying had to sing that sun monster to sleep. It was a little too “We are the world” for me. The show jumped the shark for me. Yes, that’s exactly the sort of thing that annoys me. This isn’t Captain Planet; what’s with the Power of Heart shtick? ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/50 "2014-01-15T16:20:09Z")
Seasons 3 and 4 were the best ones. After this past Christmas BBC America re-ran the whole 3rd season and watching them again made me sad for how much fun and entertaining Doctor Who used to be, before Moffat took over. (Please note, I am not criticizing Matt Smith. I like Matt Smith and his first season was really good. I am criticizing the writing and Moffat’s incredibly annoying tendency to throw everything he can at the screen as fast as possible.) I loved the 50th Anniversary special. I wish Moffat’s whole seasons could have been like that. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/51 "2014-01-15T16:55:46Z")
Hi - Longtime Dr. Who fan here. I loved Matt Smith’s Doctor, and put up with some lame stories just to watch him. I liked Eccleston’s series, but do not understand all the mad love for Tennant’s reign. Got so sick of Rose. On the other hand, Amy & Rory are probably my favorite companions, ever. I will eventually watch the Capaldi episodes, but he has big shoes to fill. And hopefully Moffat will get him some well written stories. ---
**Author:** ![TommyTutone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@TommyTutone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommyTutone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/52 "2014-01-15T17:55:48Z")
The problem between the new series, at least the last couple of seasons, compared to the old series is that the stakes are always so high. Nowadays it’s ‘omg the end of the earth’ and ‘omg the end of the galaxy’ and then ramp it up to ‘omg the end of the universe’ and finally ‘omg the end of the universe and all of time itself so it never existed’. There were many times when earth was threatened in a smaller scale in the old series, but more often than not it was just solving a mystery or dealing with an issue (with appropriate monster of the week) on an alien planet where it didn’t mean the end of the universe. The show, while I still love it, needs to take it down a notch and have more episodes like Pompeii or Van Gogh or Agatha Christie. They were not perfect, but they were ‘right sized’ for lack of a better word. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/53 "2014-01-15T18:51:11Z")
The problem with Moffatt is that he’s very, very plot-focused. He’s really fond of convoluted stories with lots of twists and turns and surprises. When this sort of thing works, it’s lots of fun. However, over the long run it comes at the expense of _character_. The more complicated the plot, the more the characters turn into little cogs in the machine. Clara is so busy being the grand galactic McGuffin (“The Impossible Girl”) we haven’t really gotten a good sense of what she’s like as a person. Compare her to Donna Noble, for example. Donna (like her or hate her) was an extremely vivid personality, not just a convenient plot hook. I’m somewhat hopeful about Capaldi, since at least the age difference means that they’ll be moving away from having the Doctor flirt with his companion. And hopefully the reappearance of the Time Lords means that the Doctor can step back from his role as Tortured Savior of the Universe so we can have some more Eccentric Uncle on Holiday adventures. But as long as Moffatt is running things, I don’t think we’re going to get much emotional depth to the series. He’s still better than John Nathan-Turner though … . 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/54 "2014-01-15T19:01:01Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I’m somewhat hopeful about Capaldi, since at least the age difference means that they’ll be moving away from having the Doctor flirt with his companion. Unfortunately, The Impossible Boyfriend angle seems to sell. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/55 "2014-01-15T19:46:21Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Fair enough - I guess it’s all down to personal taste. > > I know a lot of people have already written Capaldi off - I’m prepared to give him a chance. Why in all hells would anyone write off Capaldi? Casting that man was _brilliant_. Not in a subtle way. What are people afraid of? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/56 "2014-01-15T19:48:05Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly the sort of thing that annoys me. This isn’t Captain Planet; what’s with the Power of Heart shtick? That was a low point for that season. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/57 "2014-01-15T19:49:36Z")
The only people I’ve seen write him off are the teenage girls who thought Tennant and Smith were _so dreamy_. I don’t know of anyone else who isn’t waiting for a couple of episodes first before they render judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/58 "2014-01-15T19:56:50Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > The problem with Moffatt is that he’s very, very plot-focused. He’s really fond of convoluted stories with lots of twists and turns and surprises. I think the real problem is that he’s _not_ focused on the plot; he has grand sweeping _ideas_ for all this stuff that _sounds_ epic, all the “on the fields of Trenzalore at the hour of diddly-dee” stuff, but when it comes down to it he has no real idea of what that means or how to achieve it, so his endings are inevitably rushed and muddled and mostly a let-down. Russell T. Davies was much, much better at the “hint but don’t show” stuff; he was smart enough to leave the Nightmare Child and the Horde of Travesties offstage. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/59 "2014-01-15T21:41:06Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I think the real problem is that he’s _not_ focused on the plot; he has grand sweeping _ideas_ for all this stuff that _sounds_ epic, all the “on the fields of Trenzalore at the hour of diddly-dee” stuff, but when it comes down to it he has no real idea of what that means or how to achieve it, so his endings are inevitably rushed and muddled and mostly a let-down. Russell T. Davies was much, much better at the “hint but don’t show” stuff; he was smart enough to leave the Nightmare Child and the Horde of Travesties offstage. Aye, sorry folks but Moffat is a hack. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/60 "2014-01-15T21:45:46Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Fair enough - I guess it’s all down to personal taste. > > I know a lot of people have already written Capaldi off - … True enough about personal taste, but I’d say that anyone who’s written Capaldi off simply hasn’t seen his work. (To my mind the “iffy” element now is the writing. But perhaps we’ll all be pleasantly surprised.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557.md?page=4)