# Doctor Who has become unwatchable **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557 "2014-01-12T04:07:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/61 "2014-01-15T21:53:06Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > …- a clowning, fast-talking, half-mad jester, flailing about on screen in a supposedly entertaining manner, but almost in spite of the plot, rather than because of it. Did someone just describe Tom Baker?..I still love Tom Baker. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/62 "2014-01-15T22:57:26Z")
> [@TV\_time](#): > > Did someone just describe Tom Baker?..I still love Tom Baker. Yeah. You always remember your first Doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/63 "2014-01-15T23:08:40Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Got so sick of Rose… I agree…but she was not there for the majority of Tenant’s time, right? ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/64 "2014-01-15T23:23:53Z")
> [@TV\_time](#): > > Did someone just describe Tom Baker?..I still love Tom Baker. Nobody ever did speaking truth to power quite as well as Tom Baker. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/65 "2014-01-16T01:08:44Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > …a clowning, fast-talking, half-mad jester, flailing about on screen in a supposedly entertaining manner, but almost in spite of the plot, rather than because of it. Warrior (John Hurt) Doctor (to 11): “Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?” 😃 At the very least, that tells me that the writers are cognizant of Matt Smith’s portrayal and might be heading in a different direction with the next doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Qwisp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qwisp/32/397_2.png) [@Qwisp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwisp)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/66 "2014-01-16T02:23:31Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > He’s still better than John Nathan-Turner though … . 😃 You say that now. Wait until Moffat puts Capaldi in a multi-colored coat covered in question marks 😉 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/67 "2014-01-16T15:12:52Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Yeah. You always remember your first Doctor. Baker was my second Doctor and still my favorite though Tennant is right behind him. I didn’t like Pertwee’s Doctor as a kid and didn’t start watching again until Baker. Tom Baker’s Doctor was a nice combination of Gandalf & Sherlock and well Tom Baker. Eccleston was quite good. I would probably put him 3rd on my list. I did not like Matt Smith much and Amy Pond & River got tiring and outstayed their being interesting. I think [del]Mary Poppins[/del]Clara really helped overall though the awful Chorus to the God Planet episode was one of the worst shows. Her other were entertaining to great. I loved the ones with Strax and friends. As to Rose, I thought she was awesome and it wasn’t her looks, she looked nice but Amy, Clara & Martha were all better looking. I am also one of the fans that really liked K-9. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/68 "2014-01-16T19:14:01Z")
Bring back Strax and Vashtra! ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/69 "2014-01-16T19:18:14Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Bring back Strax and Vashtra! I didn’t like those characters much. Also, was there supposed to be some introduction for them that I missed, or did they just kind of appear? That’s the impression I got, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/70 "2014-01-16T19:34:42Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > True enough about personal taste, but I’d say that anyone who’s written Capaldi off simply hasn’t seen his work. > > (To my mind the “iffy” element now is the writing. But perhaps we’ll all be pleasantly surprised.) I’m looking forward to Capaldi. And not just because he is the first Italian doctor. 😃 Local Hero is one of my favorite movies and I’ve had a soft spot for him since. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/71 "2014-01-16T19:38:23Z")
I believe they first appeared in A Good Man Goes to War when the Doctor assembles his forces to attack Demon’s Run and Vastra and Strax’s history is quickly exposited at one point and then a lot more development occurs in the Snowmen christmas special. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/72 "2014-01-16T20:53:35Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m looking forward to Capaldi. And not just because he is the first Italian doctor. 😃 Local Hero is one of my favorite movies and I’ve had a soft spot for him since. Ditto, when I heard it was going to be Capaldi, I had to look him up and when I realized he was from Local Hero my appreciation of the choice went way up. I love that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/73 "2014-01-17T18:15:45Z")
You might also recognize him from Doctor Who (The Fires of Pompeii). He was in Torchwood too. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/74 "2014-01-18T00:06:58Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Why in all hells would anyone write off Capaldi? Casting that man was _brilliant_. Not in a subtle way. What are people afraid of? Change. People are afraid of change. I’ve been watching _Doctor Who_ for 30 years and 9 Doctors. This happens _every time_ there’s a regeneration. A slice of fans scream “AAAAAAAAAAGH! DISASTER! I QUIT!”, another slice go “SQUEE!”, and the rest of us just sit back and see what develops. Why should this time be any different? ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/75 "2014-01-21T12:07:00Z")
> [@TommyTutone](#): > > The problem between the new series, at least the last couple of seasons, compared to the old series is that the stakes are always so high. Nowadays it’s ‘omg the end of the earth’ and ‘omg the end of the galaxy’ and then ramp it up to ‘omg the end of the universe’ and finally ‘omg the end of the universe and all of time itself so it never existed’. > > There were many times when earth was threatened in a smaller scale in the old series, but more often than not it was just solving a mystery or dealing with an issue (with appropriate monster of the week) on an alien planet where it didn’t mean the end of the universe. > > The show, while I still love it, needs to take it down a notch and have more episodes like Pompeii or Van Gogh or Agatha Christie. They were not perfect, but they were ‘right sized’ for lack of a better word. Agreed, some of the best classic episodes involved a small number of people trapped in a confined space e.g. Horror of Fang Rock. I have liked each incarnation of the Doctor and feel that Matt Smith has the same problem that beset Sylvester McCoy before they cancelled the original series - Great Doctor hampered by poor scripts. In many respects it has been worse for Smith, at least McCoy had a few good episodes such as Remembrance of the Daleks and Battlefield. Every episode now seems to have a “Star Trek” ending, where they paint themselves into a corner for 43 minutes and wrap it all up in the last 2. The Christmas special was a prime example of this, since when did regeneration blow up Dalek saucers? I am looking forward to seeing Capaldi in the role, but hope that we will get a new writer soon. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/76 "2014-01-21T12:23:37Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I am also one of the fans that really liked K-9. I don’t care how many plot twists it takes, I’d do anything to get K-9 back. The greatest Dr. Who episodes are the ones with the 4th Doctor, the 2nd Romana, and K-9. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/77 "2014-01-21T13:28:08Z")
I don’t hate Moffat per se but I agree he tends to throw in grand ideas that are unrealizable. He’s a decent storyteller when he focuses on the story but he doesn’t balance episodic story AND story arcs AND character development terribly well (not that many could). He certainly needs to think about the bigger picture instead of just throwing stuff in; otherwise this will turn into _Lost_ in space (or indeed _Lost in Space_ - heh). And, speaking personally, I never want to see the Daleks, Cybermen or Weeping Angels again. And I don’t get the Matt Smith hate. When the writing has been good Smith has excelled as the Doctor; it’s not his fault that he couldn’t fix the material when it sucked (and I am definitely of the view that the last Christmas special sucked). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/78 "2014-01-21T15:15:35Z")
I don’t hate Matt Smith but he really is not a very good doctor or actor. He was completely outclassed in the 50th anniversary special and it was obvious. Though acting opposite John Hurt could expose many actors lack of skill to be fair. Smith chose to be a goofy doctor and it made his turns to moody or oh so sad seem all the weaker. Also a really good actor can often make bad material better. Peter O’Toole made a career of this. Alan Arkin and many excellent character actors have all done the same. I feel Tennant made the most of any script handed to him. He could make the weaker episode he had good. But don’t go by Doctor Who for him, check him out in [The Decoy Bride](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1657299/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_22) or [Fright Night](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1438176/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_20). The first is a piece of fluff that the 2 stars made a very nice movie out and the second should have sucked based on the script and plot but Tennant and Colin Farrell made it a fun movie at least. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/79 "2014-01-21T17:06:16Z")
I respect your opinion, What Exit, but feel the exact opposite. I thought Tennant overacted terribly on Dr Who, though I have thought he was fine in other roles. really tired of him by end of his stint on Who. On the other hand, I thought Matt Smith brought great range to his interpretation of the Doctor. will be interested to see him in other roles. And both actors were saddled with some bad material along with the good. and regarding an earlier comment of mine - Rose may not have been on the show so very much in actual number of episodes, but it seemed that way to me. I got very tired of the “Doctor Who and Rose” show. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557/80 "2014-01-21T20:59:13Z")
So, synthesizing this thread: Matt Smith was the best of doctors, Matt Smith was the worst of doctors, Moffat is the greatest of showrunners, Moffat is the most despicable of showrunners, Tennant shall never be eclipsed, Tennant is a blot on the franchise whom we must strive to forget, RTD was the savior of the franchise, RTD was a Dalek-obsessed nitwit–in short, the Moffat-Smith era is so much like the RTD-Tennant era that some of its noisiest authorities insist on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only. Yes? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-has-become-unwatchable/678557.md?page=5)