# Doctor Who: Last Christmas episode discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 25, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134 "2014-12-25T02:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/21 "2014-12-26T18:52:19Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > As to Missy, she seems to be dead, but there’s a lot of speculation that she’ll be back. Plus, the actress basically said as much before back pedaling a bit. She didn’t seem dead to me, she had the teleportation graphic not the vaporization one everyone else got. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/22 "2014-12-26T21:00:03Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Is this a good place to ask a question about the last episode of season 8, I think it was called Death in Heaven (I saw it for the first time in the runup to the Xmas episode)? I’ll spoiler it just in case. > > Specifically, the ending: who was the Cyberman who killed Missy? I must have missed something earlier in the episode. Also, is Missy/Master really dead now? That looked pretty definitive, but that’s one of my problems with Doctor Who, nothing is ever final. > [@LawMonkey](#): > > **Roderick** : To your first question, it was someone from old Who–if you only came in the reboot, it’s not going to be meaningful. He was also the blonde military chick in that episode’s father. > > As to Missy, she seems to be dead, but there’s a lot of speculation that she’ll be back. Plus, the actress basically said as much before back pedaling a bit. Yes, the Cyberman was a former Head of Unit and adventured with e.g. the Third Doctor. The Master has often been ‘killed’, but is too good an adversary - so will undoubtedly return. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/23 "2014-12-26T21:53:43Z")
One thing has left me confused…maybe I missed something that explained it? At one point, the Doctor points out that the face huggers are physically linked to each person’s brain…that there was some _thing_ jabbed into each person’s skull. Sometime shortly after the first ‘removal’ of a face hugger, it’s even remarked that there’s no sign of a wound, which turns out to be a clue that they’re still dreaming. So why are there no visible wounds at the end, when the dream has supposedly ended? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/24 "2014-12-26T22:01:57Z")
Like I said, it never ended. They’re dead. They suddenly got what they wanted and run away happily ever after? Preposterous. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/25 "2014-12-26T22:21:30Z")
So how far back does the dream go? Why did the Doctor wake up next to the TARDIS next to the volcano…does the face hugger attack go back that far? Does that mean that the events of the season finale didn’t happen? ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/26 "2014-12-26T22:30:10Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > She didn’t seem dead to me, she had the teleportation graphic not the vaporization one everyone else got. Yeah, I was on my phone and so a bit disinclined to go into much detail. My point was that it was mostly presented in-story as if she’d been killed, leaving aside the graphic–nobody said “Drat, she got away!” or went off looking for her or anything else. That said, all indications are certainly that she’ll be back. **Jeep’s Phoenix** , I was wondering about that myself. You could conceivably drop a hefty chunk of the previous season out as a dream if you were so inclined. I don’t think Moffat is going to do that, but… ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/27 "2014-12-27T03:38:40Z")
I get headaches of the type they mention in the episode quite a bit, so that really added to the creepiness factor. :eek: And can I just say “Nick Frost” is an oddly appropriate name for a dude playing Santa Claus. Sounds like an alias old St. Nick might use on occasion! ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/28 "2014-12-27T04:07:21Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Like I said, it never ended. They’re dead. They suddenly got what they wanted and run away happily ever after? Preposterous. Actually, the fact that in “reality” the creatures looked so close to Facehuggers/Headcrabs means that everyone was _still_ drawing on shared references on what the aliens actually looked like, just as much as they shared a common cultural source for the images of the North Pole base. We still have no idea what the aliens _really_ resemble, and the happy ending where they just fall off and shrivel away was just part of the dream state they are still inducing. ---
**Author:** ![Fleetwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fleetwood/32/271_2.png) [@Fleetwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fleetwood)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/29 "2014-12-27T19:28:04Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > She didn’t seem dead to me, she had the teleportation graphic not the vaporization one everyone else got. That’s how I saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/30 "2014-12-28T22:26:10Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > The creatures were a little familiar from Moffat’s bag of tricks, as were the movie influences on the episode - which it cheerfully acknowledged in Shona’s DVD watch list - but Moffat is so much better when he’s not doing story arcs. This pretty much sums up my reaction to the episode. I really liked it, it supplied a bit of welcome happy relief from last season’s sometime overly serious tone, and well, I’m going to go with believing in the happy ending until proven otherwise. But somebody remind me, where do we know that volcano from? ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/31 "2014-12-28T23:42:55Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > This pretty much sums up my reaction to the episode. I really liked it, it supplied a bit of welcome happy relief from last season’s sometime overly serious tone, and well, I’m going to go with believing in the happy ending until proven otherwise. But somebody remind me, where do we know that volcano from? When Clara threw the Tardis keys in to try and blackmail him into saving Danny, _only it was all a dream._ ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/32 "2014-12-28T23:47:58Z")
I’m still confused on HOW they got facehuggered, how did a dream crab get into Clara’s bedroom for instance? I’m inclined to agree that they are still in the dreamstate, and now I’m wondering how far back it goes. So let me see… Four team members on the North Pole base got taken by the crabs there, the Doctor got taken in a volcano and Clara in her bedroom?! How does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/33 "2014-12-29T00:49:53Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Four team members on the North Pole base got taken by the crabs there, the Doctor got taken in a volcano and Clara in her bedroom?! The polar base was one of Shona’s contributions to the collective dream state. The polar team were taken at home - although I suspect that the older guy who “died” might have been the guy who Shona had on her Xmas to-do list, and was just another part of the dream. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/34 "2014-12-29T01:35:19Z")
Tangerines. British thing, or random dream weirdness like the cheese guy on Buffy? ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/35 "2014-12-29T01:38:30Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > This pretty much sums up my reaction to the episode. I really liked it, it supplied a bit of welcome happy relief from last season’s sometime overly serious tone, and well, I’m going to go with believing in the happy ending until proven otherwise. But somebody remind me, where do we know that volcano from? Looked an awful lot like where Clara was throwing the TARDIS keys away when she had her hissy cow. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/36 "2014-12-29T02:02:26Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Tangerines. British thing, or random dream weirdness like the cheese guy on Buffy? Tangerines, clementines and satsumas all seem pretty much the same thing to me. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/37 "2014-12-29T02:24:34Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Four team members on the North Pole base got taken by the crabs there, the Doctor got taken in a volcano and Clara in her bedroom?! How does that make sense? _Nobody_ was at the North Pole, it was a shared illusion their subconsciouses constructed to create as a metaphor. It was no realer than the Santa they all dreamed. Shona was at home, Clara was in bed, the Doctor was by a volcano somewhere, and we don’t know where the others were: on Earth somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/38 "2014-12-29T03:43:27Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > _Nobody_ was at the North Pole, it was a shared illusion their subconsciouses constructed to create as a metaphor. It was no realer than the Santa they all dreamed. Shona was at home, Clara was in bed, the Doctor was by a volcano somewhere, and we don’t know where the others were: on Earth somewhere. Ok thanks, so then I still wonder what the Doctor was doing at the volcano(on earth?) and how Clara and the others got father hugged by the crabs. They did not seem to have or be capable of using technology, are we supposed to think someone snuck into their rooms while they were sleeping? ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/39 "2014-12-29T04:18:03Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Ok thanks, so then I still wonder what the Doctor was doing at the volcano(on earth?) I wondered this too. At the beginning of Dark Water, when Clara was going to throw the keys away, the Doctor told her that the sticker thingy (which she thought she’d stuck him with, but in actuality he’d put on her hand) induced a dream state. So next thing we know, the Doctor is waking up on a planet that looks remarkably like the same place, after being in a dream state. If he was asleep, why wasn’t he in the TARDIS, instead of sleeping on the ground outside it? I wonder if they’d be brave enough to have Season 9 all end up being a big dream, Clara really DID leave at the end of Season 8, and all the adventures they had together in Season 9 didn’t really happen? Maybe he gets awakened by Shona (who gets my vote for next companion when Clara does leave). ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134/40 "2014-12-29T09:53:28Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > When Clara threw the Tardis keys in to try and blackmail him into saving Danny, _only it was all a dream._ Ah right, thanks. But come on, they’re not really going to go the ‘it was all just a dream’-route, are they? I mean, that’s the lamest cliché in the book… Again, until proven otherwise, I’ll just believe that the volcano was the generic ‘alien planet somewhere’-set they still had around, and just reused it (with maybe a bit of a bonus being he connection to the dream sequence before). Or, well, it is the return of the Dream Lord after all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-last-christmas-episode-discussion/708134.md?page=3)