# Doctor who performed abortions shot to death. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280 "2009-05-31T19:55:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/241 "2009-06-01T16:37:49Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > My definition of a human is a properly fertilized ovum, that is undergoing mitosis, on its way to producing the phenotype encoded in its DNA. It remains a human until deceased. Anyone who interferes with that process is terminating a human. Reducing the process of human development, and aging, down to the same level as tissue cells is kind of stupid. > [@](#): > > The risk of miscarriage decreases as pregnancy progresses. It is possible that as many as 50% of pregnancies miscarry before implantation in the womb occurs. Early after implantation, pregnancy loss rate is about 30% (i.e. this is still before a pregnancy is clinically recognised). After a pregnancy may be clinically recognised (between days 35-50), about 25% will end in miscarriage. The risk of miscarriage decreases dramatically after the 8th week as the weeks go by [http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarr.asp](http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarr.asp) Okay, but we’re going to build a lot more cells to put all these murderers in. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/242 "2009-06-01T16:38:17Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > [Abortion as birth control](http://web.archive.org/web/20010427111029/http://www.we-myi.org/issues/20/atalkwith.html): > > “Our clinic in Brooklyn serves a large population including the area of Brighton Beach. Last year a Brighton Beach woman who had recently emigrated from the former Soviet Union came into our clinic for her 24th abortion.” - Alexander Sanger, President of Planned Parenthood of New York City and The Margaret Sanger Center International In Soviet Russia, foetus aborts YOU!!! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/243 "2009-06-01T16:38:59Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I assume you have some sort of cite for that? For what, that she’s not the first person in history? That should be easy. Just find a bio of a historical figure that was written before she was born. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/244 "2009-06-01T16:42:53Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I don’t buy that. While the DNA we’re talking about is human, just simply having the latent DNA isn’t in and of itself isn’t _a_ human, if it cannot undergo mitosis (and all the other processes that produce a living and breathing individual due to natural processes.) > > While the mind is certainly the seat of the individual, consciousness is a gradient of awareness. The human condition is so vast, that there are those alive that have lower self-awareness than others. Some due to congenial defects. Rhetorical question: _If we were to develop a test that could tell us whether or not a fetus will become self-aware past a certain threshold, are we to abort it if it doesn’t meet that criteria?_ Resting the _humanness_ of a being solely on the mind and consciousness/self-awareness is a dangerously deluded position. > > Don’t be silly. And why are you asking me? I’m pro-choice. When there are areas of morality as gray as this, I believe the government needs to step back, not forward. Concerning your question, that’s on you (the royal “you”). I only ask that people treat each other and themselves with respect—golden rule and all that. Whether or not you believe that respect channels down through themselves to a developing human is an exercise in humanism for everyone to work out on their own. A very complicated one, at that, with many variables. Good luck. I misinterpreted your post. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/245 "2009-06-01T16:47:39Z")
> [@flonks](#): > > That is open to debate. What’s supposed to happen to the souls of aborted babies? Does God just stuff em back into a new baby that isn’t aborted, or do they get lost or destroyed or what? How does their fate differ from that of the soul of an abortion doc who’s murdered by a pro-life guy? Is there some logic to how the pro-life folks value different souls/lifes? ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/246 "2009-06-01T16:50:48Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > What’s supposed to happen to the souls of aborted babies? Does God just stuff em back into a new baby that isn’t aborted, or do they get lost or destroyed or what? > How does their fate differ from that of the soul of an abortion doc who’s murdered by a pro-life guy? > Is there some logic to how the pro-life folks value different souls/lifes? Do you really want to start a discussion on philosophy/spirituality? Create your own thread. Although raised catholic, I am not. I belief in reincarnation, so, yes, I think that the baby’s soul will have other chances on earth. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/247 "2009-06-01T16:51:45Z")
> [@flonks](#): > > You may want to try the mean or, even better, the median. In 2005, [the most recent data year available from the CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5713a1.htm?s_cid=ss5713a1_e#tab13), 19% of all reported abortions were at least the third performed. This percentage was [13 in the 1984-'85 report](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001467.htm), the earliest available CDC data for previous abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/248 "2009-06-01T16:52:28Z")
Two women get raped the same night in the same time of their cycle and will conceive. Both take the morning after pill. One doesn’t get pregnant, one does. The latter has an abortion. How are these two cases different? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/249 "2009-06-01T16:52:30Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarr.asp](http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarr.asp) > > Okay, but we’re going to build a lot more cells to put all these murderers in. With all due respect—what the hell are you on about? Miscarriages happen. It’s nature. I’m talking about terminating a pregnancy through direct interference. Even if the mother doesn’t take care of herself to the point of invoking a miscarry, call it what you want, but you’re terminating the pregnancy as a choice on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/250 "2009-06-01T16:56:29Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Two women get raped the same night in the same time of their cycle and will conceive. Both take the morning after pill. One doesn’t get pregnant, one does. The latter has an abortion. > > How are these two cases different? Did anyone claim that all repeat abortions did not involve failed pills/condoms/etc.? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/251 "2009-06-01T17:00:24Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Two ex-girlfriends aborted pregnancies of ours because we were breaking up? Look, I have no cite, and yes, I am neither a woman nor a provider of these services, but you have to be naive to think that many, many women don’t get abortions just for the simple fact that they do not want to have a baby, which could have been prevented by taking obvious birth control precautions. > > Women can do whatever the fuck they want, but I still will go on believing that women that get abortions after failing to practice safe(er) sex are not to be lauded, at all. Yes indeed. They should be forced to have kids they do not want and can not afford. They should of course raise children without resentment . They should continue to build a successful education and a life while raising a kid they can not pay for. Good thing we pay taxes for such things. But many people detest welfare. If we could end that all would be well. Nobody praises a person who made a mistake and got pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/252 "2009-06-01T17:07:18Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I misinterpreted your post. Sorry about that. No problem, in rapid-fire, heated arguments like these, it happens. It’s happened to me as well. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/253 "2009-06-01T17:12:44Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I wonder if the so called Pro=Life marchers, sign carriers etc. stir up the few fanatic’s (like the Taliban, and Al Quida) to the point that they believe they are doing a good For God? > > I would think any one who is truly Pro-Life (not just Pro Birth) would spend the time and energy,and money traveling around the country, would try to find away to help people be more responsible for their actions, by starting to teach human sexuality from the time one is little, to help them think before they act, and to teach those who wish to have sex (Married or not) the cost to the child that could be concieved under the circumstance. Many religious people treat sex as something dirty and have a difficult time talking about it to their children and do not like it taught in school or by any other way. Children pick up things (even suggestions and think about what they see or hear. If they hear the right things at an early age and realize some things are out of place, perhaps they will understand the big responsibility that comes from an action. I think if Sarah Palin’s daughter had had a different teaching about human sexuality her situation could have been avoided. I believe Megan McCain is advocating just that – educate teenagers about sexuality, stop promoting “abstinance only”, etc. She was just speaking on that topic on _The Colbert Report_. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/254 "2009-06-01T17:13:56Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Women can do whatever the fuck they want, but I still will go on believing that women that get abortions after failing to practice safe(er) sex are not to be lauded, at all. I agree. We should definitely stop giving them all those medals and honorary doctorates and cash awards and shit. Incidentally, how do you feel about men who have unprotected sex resulting in abortions? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/255 "2009-06-01T17:18:57Z")
_chest bump_ ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/256 "2009-06-01T17:24:03Z")
> [@flonks](#): > > Do you really want to start a discussion on philosophy/spirituality? Create your own thread. > > Although raised catholic, I am not. I belief in reincarnation, so, yes, I think that the baby’s soul will have other chances on earth. So then, no big deal if it’s aborted. Yes? If you believe in a deity, then its murder, the baby goes to [insert eternal utopia here] and the mother/father/doctor goes to [insert eternal damnation here]. _Whatever._ I think the biggest struggle on the issue is for atheists and agnostics. There’s no right answer, as much as we justify or rationalize the issue, there’s just no getting around the “ugliness” of it all. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/257 "2009-06-01T17:28:31Z")
After reading a bunch of anti-abortion sites, I come away with the idea that they think every woman who wants an abortion should be forced to give birth and then give it to a straight married religious couple. Brood mares indeed. ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/258 "2009-06-01T17:29:56Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > So then, no big deal if it’s aborted. Yes? No. (I am still pro-choice). ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/259 "2009-06-01T17:33:39Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Two ex-girlfriends aborted pregnancies of ours because we were breaking up? Look, I have no cite, and yes, I am neither a woman nor a provider of these services, but you have to be naive to think that many, many women don’t get abortions just for the simple fact that they do not want to have a baby, which could have been prevented by taking obvious birth control precautions… [/quote] Apparently those “obvious birth control precautions” weren’t so obvious to you. Guess condoms must have been really, really hard to get oh, 'bout ten years ago or so? :rolleyes: Seriously, why is it almost inevitable in so many people’s (close) minds that it is the woman’s “fault” when they get pregnant due to recreational intercourse? I thought we were past Immaculate Conceptions. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/260 "2009-06-01T17:36:14Z")
Also, just for the record “because they do not want to have a baby” strikes me as an eminently reasonable, if not downright excellent reason to have an abortion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=14)