# Doctor who performed abortions shot to death. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280 "2009-05-31T19:55:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/341 "2009-06-01T23:17:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I am aware that it is temporarily housed and fed inside the body of the woman who created it, yes. Wow. And usually it’s the pro-choicers who accuse pro-lifers of perceiving women as mere incubators. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s a case of conflicting rights, and in my opinion if a woman allows a child to develop to the point that it becomes a sentient being unto itself, she loses the right to take preventative measures and in effect kill it. > > I would be content with laws allowing abortions up to the point where nervous systems exist and brain activity begins to occur, and prohibiting them after that under penalty of law other than to save the woman’s life. How exactly are you perceiving this situation, in which women wait to have abortions? What do you think is happening? If anything, the culture of shame over abortion is a significant factor for women debating whether or not to terminate (encouraging them to wait longer). But it comes only after: ignorance of their own bodies and reproductive organs (women who’ve received paltry sex ed or none at all and can’t even recognize they’re pregnant), shame (girls and women who’ve been raped, especially by a family member or abusive partner, and are in denial), a change in living situation (being laid off or ending a relationship), poverty (women who have to save up for an abortion or try to borrow money, or women working jobs without benefits who’ve got to beg for time off), access (women working the aforementioned jobs, often low-paying, who’ve got to travel a day or two to the closest abortion provider – and, in many states, stay several days between their initial ‘consultation’ and the actual procedure), their medical situation has changed (e.g. being diagnosed with depression or any other condition whose meds may conflict with a healthy fetus), and finally, the most common of all, their life is in danger and the baby is likely to die shortly after birth or live briefly in pain. Which of these situations is unacceptable to you and deserving of a fine and/or jail time? ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/342 "2009-06-01T23:22:33Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > Ever notice that Pro-Life people are always Pro-Death Penalty? Never say never, and never say always. ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/343 "2009-06-01T23:24:48Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > But until a 21-week-old proves the Goldbach conjecture while it’s killing time before the Grand Entrance, I don’t consider a few embryonic brain waves an ethical show-stopper. Can **you** prove the Goldbach conjecture? As far as I know it did not yet pass from “conjecture” to “theorem”. You set the bars quite high for a being to be considered as intelligent 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/344 "2009-06-01T23:39:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > …I… can’t believe no one else touched this. Seriously? A fetus is the moral equivelant of a rapist?.. and > [@](#): > > …This line of view can lead to ethical abortions of 5 minute old babies, right? I’m not necessarily disagreeing with the concept, just want clarification. Stunning. You have a genius for rendering plain meaning into drivel. In neither instance did the poster say anything remotely similar to your quasi-paraphrase. You didn’t just misinterpret, you took their statements, stuffed its head up its ass and pulled it inside out ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/345 "2009-06-01T23:53:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Most humans don’t retain any accessible memory of the first few years after they leave the womb. Are you saying you’re up for eighth-trimester abortion? I already said I was a callous bastard—don’t \*encourage \*me. Anyway, I believe I’m firmly on record as opposing late octomester abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/346 "2009-06-01T23:53:12Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > There are quite a few of us on this board who do come right out and say that. I know Diana, Brian Ekers, and I are three of them. There are others. > > I support abortion because we should all have sovereignty over our bodies. > > We don’t even force _the dead_ to donate organs. The _dead_. We don’t force the most horrific killers or rapists to donate blood, or bone marrow, or kidneys, or pieces of their liver. It doesn’t matter how many people would be saved; we don’t do it. > > The status of the fetus as human or not, person or not, alive or not is immaterial to me. What matters is what a woman gets to do with her body. This. **Starving Artist** , I don’t think most of us here are advocating late-term abortions as birth control. However, they ARE necessary in certain cases, and thus, should be legal. The vast majority are done in cases of _medical_ necessity. Does anyone know what the fuck **Senior Beef** is nattering on about? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/347 "2009-06-02T00:02:26Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Wow. And usually it’s the pro-choicers who accuse pro-lifers of perceiving women as mere incubators. > > How exactly are you perceiving this situation, in which women wait to have abortions? What do you think is happening? If anything, the culture of shame over abortion is a significant factor for women debating whether or not to terminate (encouraging them to wait longer). But it comes only after: ignorance of their own bodies and reproductive organs (women who’ve received paltry sex ed or none at all and can’t even recognize they’re pregnant), shame (girls and women who’ve been raped, especially by a family member or abusive partner, and are in denial), a change in living situation (being laid off or ending a relationship), poverty (women who have to save up for an abortion or try to borrow money, or women working jobs without benefits who’ve got to beg for time off), access (women working the aforementioned jobs, often low-paying, who’ve got to travel a day or two to the closest abortion provider – and, in many states, stay several days between their initial ‘consultation’ and the actual procedure), their medical situation has changed (e.g. being diagnosed with depression or any other condition whose meds may conflict with a healthy fetus), and finally, the most common of all, their life is in danger and the baby is likely to die shortly after birth or live briefly in pain. > > Which of these situations is unacceptable to you and deserving of a fine and/or jail time? These are all good points and have to be taken into consideration. Still, there is an obvious deadline to abortions, i.e., nine months. So people somehow do get around to getting it done by a certain deadline. What I propose consists simply of moving that deadline up. Just like with the nine month deadline, people will do what they have to do to get it done in time. There isn’t anything you mentioned that becomes easier in the eighth month than the forth month Further, it seems to me it would be far less expensive, less traumatic (barring the likes of **DianaG** , of course) and less taxing physically to undergo an abortion in the first four to four-and-a-half months than it would be later on when the baby is much larger and more well developed and has been lived with for a longer period of time. And on preview: > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Starving Artist, I don’t think most of us here are advocating late-term abortions as birth control. However, they ARE necessary in certain cases, and thus, should be legal. The vast majority are done in cases of medical necessity. That’s fine as far as it goes, but in my opinion…and an opinion that the evidence backs up…even certain mid-term abortions result in the killing of babies that are fully developed physiologically. I would prefer that all abortions save for those that are legitimate medical necessities be done prior to the that stage. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/348 "2009-06-02T00:13:54Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > While the mind is certainly the seat of the individual, consciousness is a gradient of awareness. The human condition is so vast, that there are those alive that have lower self-awareness than others. Some due to congenial defects. Rhetorical question: _If we were to develop a test that could tell us whether or not a fetus will become self-aware past a certain threshold, are we to abort it if it doesn’t meet that criteria?_ Resting the _humanness_ of a being solely on the mind and consciousness/self-awareness is a dangerously deluded position. You assume that I would answer “no” to your “rhetorical question”. To answer it, yes we should, and we often do in the real world. If a fetus doesn’t have enough of a brain, for example. > [@cmyk](#): > > Just because it doesn’t have a personality yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t human (a human). Convince me that I shouldn’t give a rat’s ass about aborted fetuses, and I won’t. I do, because I give weight to humanity at all stages, in all its diversity. Those that don’t, are drawing an imaginary line in the sand, and saying _here_ is where we don’t give a shit. Fine, whatever, but you wouldn’t draw that line, if you felt you didn’t need to, for some rationalization on your part. All that argument does is put the word “human” in the “not intrinsically valuable” category. A mindless fetus is a mindless fetus whether you call it a fetus, a human, or a mango. A lump of meat with human DNA is still just meat, whatever the label. > [@cmyk](#): > > Well, but we _are_ rationalizing that meat isn’t murder. No, we aren’t. Murder is the killing of a person, not an animal. > [@cmyk](#): > > So long as we accept abortion and its sisters, I see no reason why we can’t just come out and admit we’re terminating a human life for whatever the reason is. I would love to see it another way, but no one’s made a good point yet. That simply trivializes the term “human life.” I prefer to reserve it for actual people. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > Do none of you actually understand the logical basis for an anti-abortion position? It’s about individual rights - they believe that a fetus is an individual life, and therefore it has a right to life. They view their advocacy as promoting human rights. I don’t believe that for an instant. They’ve made it quite clear they don’t care about human rights, or the welfare of the child they want to force to be born. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > This is an issue where people of different values and ideology can legitimately differ - but I don’t know if anyone in this entire thread has treated the opposing point of view in a remotely reasonable way. Do you lose something by treating your opposition into reasonable people who have different views on the issue? Yes; it’s stupid to treat malignant woman haters as merely reasonable people with whom I disagree. > [@buttonjockey308](#): > > [QUOTE=elucidator] > Is life itself, sheer existence, so utterly holy that it outweighs compassion? Yes. Yet with free will, we can choose compassion over suffering, pleasure over pain, joy over sorrow. And sometimes we do. [/QUOTE] Oh, please. If that was true pain and suffering would not exist. > [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Life is the reason for itself, for more life. Therefore, if there truly is any one thing that is holy, it is that. Not doctrine nor dogma, not a savior or saint, not church nor vicar, but life itself. And you appear to be calling cancer holy. Life that exists only to make more of itself. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Does anyone know what the fuck **Senior Beef** is nattering on about? He’s a big believer in the idea that we should never, ever treat one side as being in the wrong, or irrational, or nasty. Even when they show up waving guns, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/349 "2009-06-02T00:15:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > and > > Stunning. You have a genius for rendering plain meaning into drivel. In neither instance did the poster say anything remotely similar to your quasi-paraphrase. You didn’t just misinterpret, you took their statements, stuffed its head up its ass and pulled it inside out I didn’t twist anything. **Annie-Xmas** is saying that a rapist and an unwanted fetus are doing the same thing - using a woman’s reproductive system against her will. The actual quote: > [@](#): > > If a man does it, it is called “rape.” > If people support a fetus doing it, it’s called being “pro-life.” You don’t think she intends to indicate similarities between a rapist and either a fetus and/or anti-abortion advocate? If not, what was the point of her statement? And what **Diogenes the Cynic** said: > [@](#): > > Yeah, it pretty much does. If a person can’t be defined by by sentience and distinct personality, then the word has no meaning. And there is no “yet,” if the pregnancy is terminated. You can’t import hypothetical futures into the present. Just because oak trees grow from acorns doesn’t mean all acorns are oak trees. Some acorns are nothing but future squirrel shit. Okay, so a life doesn’t become a human person before it develops a personality, and therefore there are no moral qualms to ending it before that stage, right? > [@](#): > > I never made such an assertion. It’s my belief that birth is the rational demarcation for a legal status of “personhood,” but I personally don’t think the individual personality fully devlops unti after birth. Maybe I’m misinterpreting it, but I’m reading his statement to be “some time after birth” and not “instantly develops a personality at birth” - meaning that it takes some time after birth to develop a personality. Since a human without a personality isn’t really a person, and hence there’s no moral qualm to killing it, if a baby doesn’t develop a personality until some time after birth, it seems logical that there’s no moral qualm about killing a just-born child, right? I admit I may be misinterpreting his words of “develops until after birth” to mean it takes some time to develop, rather than instantly having a personality at the moment of birth - but otherwise I didn’t attempt to twist his words in any way, just examine the logical conclusion. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Does anyone know what the fuck **Senior Beef** is nattering on about? If you have an argument to make, make it. Otherwise this is just sniping. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/350 "2009-06-02T00:20:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He’s a big believer in the idea that we should never, ever treat one side as being in the wrong, or irrational, or nasty. Even when they show up waving guns, apparently. This isn’t true. I’m all for treating people as wrong or irrational if they hold, for example, supernatural beliefs. You are an extremist. You believe that every single person, even a hypothetical anti-abortion advocate who talked 30 women out of an abortion and adopted the kids themselves, could not possibly have any other motivation for thinking abortion was wrong other than a deliberately malicious attempt to harm women. Even if I were to grant that you were right in 95% of cases, which I wouldn’t, of course, you’d still be massively wrong. You are the wrong, irrational, and nasty one here. You have an unshakable faith that every person who holds a certain viewpoint is part of one monolithic entity who all hold the exact same beliefs for the exact same reason. You are a zealot. Even in this thread full of some pretty terrible arguments, I doubt there’s anyone here who would agree wholeheartedly with you. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/351 "2009-06-02T00:21:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I didn’t twist anything. **Annie-Xmas** is saying that a rapist and an unwanted fetus are doing the same thing - using a woman’s reproductive system against her will. Yes. One does it deliberately and one mindlessly, but the effect is the same. If Snidely Whiplash tries to run you over with a train, you blame Snidely. If the train is a runaway bearing down on you, you don’t blame the train. But you still hope to find a way to derail it since getting hit by the train has the same effect either way. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/352 "2009-06-02T00:25:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yes. One does it deliberately and one mindlessly, but the effect is the same. > > If Snidely Whiplash tries to run you over with a train, you blame Snidely. > > If the train is a runaway bearing down on you, you don’t blame the train. But you still hope to find a way to derail it since getting hit by the train has the same effect either way. So then is it not reasonable to say that the intent of the statement was to say that rapists and anti-abortion advocates are morally equivelant? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/353 "2009-06-02T00:28:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The notion that anyone is trying to tell women “what to do with their own bodies” is one of the more specious pro-abortion arguments of all. What those of us who abhor abortion are concerned about is you destroying someone else’s body. **We couldn’t care less what you do with your own.** > > ( **bolding** mine - **kd99** ) Then you couldn’t care less if she takes whatever steps she deems necessary to keep her uterus clear for the pregnancy that she intends to carry to term. Well done. That is what people are arguing for her right to do. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/354 "2009-06-02T00:37:24Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > So then is it not reasonable to say that the intent of the statement was to say that rapists and anti-abortion advocates are morally equivelant? That isn’t what you said that originally drew complaints. You said that the _fetus_ was the equivalent of a rapist. That statement is troublesome since it undermines the specific, intentional, horrors inflicted by rapists. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/355 "2009-06-02T00:39:42Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You are an extremist. You believe that every single person, even a hypothetical anti-abortion advocate who talked 30 women out of an abortion and adopted the kids themselves, could not possibly have any other motivation for thinking abortion was wrong other than a deliberately malicious attempt to harm women. > > Even if I were to grant that you were right in 95% of cases, which I wouldn’t, of course, you’d still be massively wrong. Nonsense, and it doesn’t need to be that high. I said, repeatedly, that they are either out to harm women, or supporting the harm of women. And the actions of a few people - ones that even you had to call hypothetical - don’t change what the whole group is about, or the results of their actions. If I bought your logic, I couldn’t label people who support slavery and torture as bad, either. You are simply in denial that a political movement can be fundamentally ill meaning. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/356 "2009-06-02T00:40:10Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Then you couldn’t care less if she takes whatever steps she deems necessary to keep her uterus clear for the pregnancy that she intends to carry to term. > > Well done. That is what people are arguing for her right to do. Yep. I have no quarrel whatsoever with “pro-life” people who believe I should have complete control over my reproductive organs. Around these parts, we tend to call that “pro-choice,” but semantics be damned. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/357 "2009-06-02T00:45:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nonsense, and it doesn’t need to be that high. I said, repeatedly, that they are either out to harm women, or supporting the harm of women. And the actions of a few people - ones that even you had to call hypothetical - don’t change what the whole group is about, or the results of their actions I will never disagree with you about the effect of their desires on the real lives of women AND I think that there is a great deal of misogyny in a lot of pro-life rhetoric. But I think it’s a mistake to attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance or carelessness. I think that you give the movement too much credit (even if negative credit) for even _considering_ the women. The women aren’t even really in the equation for most anti-abortion activists. That is its own issue, but not a necessarily deliberately malevolent one. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/358 "2009-06-02T00:49:27Z")
**jsgoddess** , your statements in the last page of posts or so have been some of the most sane, reasonable, and even-handed in the whole thread. There have been other good ones, but I like the way you respond to those whose opinions differ from yours. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/359 "2009-06-02T00:54:11Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > That isn’t what you said that originally drew complaints. You said that the _fetus_ was the equivalent of a rapist. That statement is troublesome since it undermines the specific, intentional, horrors inflicted by rapists. The fetus is using her reproductive organs against her will just like a rapist, right? I thought that was the point of the statement. Yes, I realize it “undermines the specific, intentional, horrors inflicted by rapists” because I was saying how ridiculous the statement was. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/360 "2009-06-02T00:59:55Z")
He was a baby killer, IMO. I will not be shedding any tears for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=19)