# Doctor who performed abortions shot to death. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280 "2009-05-31T19:55:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/421 "2009-06-02T06:44:39Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Here’s a sci-fi hypothetical: > > Say you could travel back in time to the days your mother first found out she was pregnant with you (let’s say 3 weeks in). You get to talking, and she opens up with you… you seem like a familiar soul. You learn she didn’t plan this at all. She has little money, little support and this will throw a huge damper in her plans. She’s seriously debating an abortion. Do you encourage her to go through with it? What about your brothers and sisters that were never concieved? By your logic, a women who doesn’t deliver a baby every year from her first period to menopause is depriving someone of life. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/422 "2009-06-02T06:51:14Z")
> [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](#): > > Ah, the Dope: where people who don’t disagree strongly will devote nine pages to disagreeing loudly. Well, to be honest it’s frequently (sometimes?) the case that only after all the misconceptions and mischaracterizations about each other have been laid to rest that it becomes apparent that we have less to disagree about than we originally thought to be the case. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/423 "2009-06-02T06:52:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Sure. If changing the past can erase me, I’m already gone anyway. Just appearing there would do it. Ok, then change your mom’s pregnancy to that of your much beloved sister or brother. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > More importantly, your hypothetical isn’t a good analogy, because an actuality ( me ) isn’t at all the same as a potentiality ( what a fetus _ **might** _ become ). Hrmm. This seems sort of like a copout of the hypothetical (DtC was a total copout). Forget about the paradoxical nature or philosophical ideas of actual vs. potential. Just boil it down to this: If you do encourage her, you (or your sibling) are never born. If you do not, things end up as you’ve always known them to be. You don’t really have to answer, I’m just trying to provoke the sort of thought that goes through my head. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/424 "2009-06-02T06:55:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What about your brothers and sisters that were never concieved? By your logic, a women who doesn’t deliver a baby every year from her first period to menopause is depriving someone of life. You’re changing the subject and missing the point of the hypothetical. I’m not talking about someone who didn’t get pregnant. I’m talking about your mother, who _is_ pregnant with you (or your sibling if the whole paradox thing is gonna trip you up). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/425 "2009-06-02T07:07:00Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Ok, then change your mom’s pregnancy to that of your much beloved sister or brother. Same principle applies. If the past can be changed, then when I arrive everyone I knew is gone; erased. Me, my relatives, everyone. > [@cmyk](#): > > Hrmm. This seems sort of like a copout of the hypothetical (DtC was a total copout). Forget about the paradoxical nature or philosophical ideas of actual vs. potential. But I can’t, since that’s the point. Given cloning, should I mourn every dead cell as a dead potential person ? It is, you know, if we decided to develop the technology. No we shouldn’t, because potential is just potential not actuality. Treating them as identical leads to absurdities like that. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/426 "2009-06-02T07:18:18Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Same principle applies. If the past can be changed, then when I arrive everyone I knew is gone; erased. Me, my relatives, everyone. This isn’t true if it’s a younger sibling than yourself. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But I can’t, since that’s the point. Given cloning, should I mourn every dead cell as a dead potential person ? It is, you know, if we decided to develop the technology. > > No we shouldn’t, because potential is just potential not actuality. Treating them as identical leads to absurdities like that. If you came across a planet that had only one small pond full microbial life, but you had the choice to destroy it or not, because you needed the pondwater they occupied for sustenance, would you? Given millions/billions of years it could evolve into sentient life. That’s _potential,_ but it doesn’t dilute the weight of your immediate, _actual_ decision. It might actually make the decision much harder. That is if you value life, no matter what stage. ---
**Author:** ![PeacePlease](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@PeacePlease](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeacePlease)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/427 "2009-06-02T07:32:29Z")
…and on it goes… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/428 "2009-06-02T07:35:14Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Ok, then change your mom’s pregnancy to that of your much beloved sister or brother. > > Hrmm. This seems sort of like a copout of the hypothetical (DtC was a total copout). That wasn’t a copout, that was my honest answer. It’s not my place to tell any woman what to do. > [@](#): > > If you do encourage her, you (or your sibling) are never born. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/429 "2009-06-02T07:55:17Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > You’re changing the subject and missing the point of the hypothetical. > > I’m not talking about someone who didn’t get pregnant. I’m talking about your mother, who _is_ pregnant with you (or your sibling if the whole paradox thing is gonna trip you up). Let me give \*you \*a hypothetical: Would you travel back in time to the night you were conceived and given your father a condom? If no, are you opposed to safe sex? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/430 "2009-06-02T08:43:23Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Ok, then change your mom’s pregnancy to that of your much beloved sister or brother. Or, say you could travel back in time to the days before your mother found out she was pregnant with you (let’s say 9 months before). You get to talking, and she opens up with you… you seem like a nice-enough looking guy. You learn that she’s been so lonely because her husband neglects her. She has a fifth of Southern Comfort, a lid of grass, and a heart-shaped waterbed. Do you go through with it? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/431 "2009-06-02T10:01:24Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Or, say you could travel back in time to the days before your mother found out she was pregnant with you (let’s say 9 months before). You get to talking, and she opens up with you… you seem like a nice-enough looking guy. You learn that she’s been so lonely because her husband neglects her. She has a fifth of Southern Comfort, a lid of grass, and a heart-shaped waterbed. Do you go through with it? Is this the part where she gets pregnant and is delivered of a hermaphrodite child who is mysteriously kidnapped? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/432 "2009-06-02T10:14:38Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > To be clear **E-Sabbath,** I’m cool with abortion laws as they are. Never said I had a problem with them. Well, you’re the one calling 'em human as soon as they’re fertilized. You just want people to admit they’re killing humans. And killing humans is murder. Whole bunch of murderers out there. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/433 "2009-06-02T10:20:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@RedRosesForMe](#): > > > > Although it implies that gestational age is not always reported, so those numbers must be taken with a grain of salt. > > And is quite often reported incorrectly. Determining the date of conception is necessarily a bit of a guessing game, since it relies on the mother’s recall about her MRP and so on. This is simply not true. The method of extraction is determined by the gestational age, so no doctor is just going to ask when your last period was and take your word for it. They do an ultrasound. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/434 "2009-06-02T10:30:44Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Here’s a sci-fi hypothetical: > > Say you could travel back in time to the days your mother first found out she was pregnant with you (let’s say 3 weeks in). You get to talking, and she opens up with you… you seem like a familiar soul. You learn she didn’t plan this at all. She has little money, little support and this will throw a huge damper in her plans. She’s seriously debating an abortion. Do you encourage her to go through with it? If I weren’t alive I wouldn’t miss me, so speculating on the potential outcome of my mother having an abortion is pointless. That said, I, **alexandra** , am probably alive because of someone else’s abortion, and so is my dad. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/435 "2009-06-02T10:32:56Z")
> [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](#): > > We also pretty much agree that late-term abortions should, for strong preference, only occur in dire circumstances. No, we don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/436 "2009-06-02T10:54:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, I didn’t. I’m saying that their actions demonstrate that the anti-abortion movement is a crusade against women, and therefore anyone who supports it is either a woman hater or supports woman haters. I’m saying that it’s a vile position to hold, that their justifications for their beliefs don’t remotely hold water, and don’t see any reason to care why they hold that position or whether they are liars or willfully self deluded. The result is the same. I would take it a step further, as it seems they are disregarding the woman entirely…as if _she_ weren’t a person at all. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/437 "2009-06-02T11:15:00Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Is this the part where she gets pregnant and is delivered of a hermaphrodite child who is mysteriously kidnapped? Say you could travel back in time to the days your mother first found out she was pregnant with you (let’s July 1888). You get to talking, and she opens up with you… you seem like a _mensch_. You learn that if it’s a boy, she plans to name the baby “Adolf.” You catch a glimpse of yourself reflected in the café window and notice, for the first time, a toothbrush moustache on your upper lip. Do you order an _Apfelstrudel_? I understand they’re quite excellent here. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/438 "2009-06-02T12:10:49Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I’m not saying you should feel guilty about having an abortion, but at least be honest about the weight of the decision. If you feel having an abortion is on par with clipping your fingernails, then so be it, it just smacks of rationalizing to me. > > What I meant about the ovum, is that human development is a gradient. You, yes you, were once an ovum. All demarcations are imaginary, and to tell yourself it will not eventually become an individual is deluding yourself, for whatever your own reasons may be. As you state it we were all sperms too. So every man kills a lot of humans when ever he ejaculates,even if there is a conception. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/439 "2009-06-02T12:25:46Z")
If you believe life begins at conception, then destroying frozen fertilized eggs is murder. Yet there has never been a court case where it was decided that a woman could be implanted with her fertized eggs against the father’s will. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/440 "2009-06-02T12:41:26Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Two women get raped the same night in the same time of their cycle and will conceive. Both take the morning after pill. One doesn’t get pregnant, one does. The latter has an abortion. > > How are these two cases different? At what time after the taking of the morning after pill did the woman (who you give as an example), need an abortion? Was she really pregnant? Did she have a test? How would she know if there was a conception? Some people do not want the morning after pill to be legal or off the counter because they think there “Might” be a pregnancy. Isn’t the morning after pill supposed to cause the sperm and egg to prevent a pregnancy? Is a fertile egg a human being? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=23)