# Doctor who performed abortions shot to death. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280 "2009-05-31T19:55:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/501 "2009-06-02T23:21:00Z")
The same people are usually the ones who want to forbid comprehensive sex ed in schools, **Siege**. “Abstinence only”. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![RedRosesForMe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RedRosesForMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedRosesForMe)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/502 "2009-06-02T23:31:37Z")
I don’t know, **Siege** , I’m actually quite surprised at the general lack of vituperation in this thread. It’s there, of course, but I wouldn’t say the entire thread has devolved into juvenile name-calling yet. **Starving Artist** and I, although approaching the issue from different perspectives, seem to have a similar attitude about it. As for your suggestions, I think they’re all great and should be implented regardless of their effect on abortions. Two things, though, with regard to this: > [@](#): > > Would you support some kind of a pool out of which the cost of prenatal care and giving birth would be paid for women without health insurance who chose to put their babies up for adoption or who chose to keep their babies? Even pregnant women who have health insurance, if they’re below a certain income level, qualify for Medicaid to offset the astronomical costs of prenatal care and labor and delivery. And adoptions often include a clause requiring the adoptive parents to pay for the medical care for the woman. So I think we’re a lot closer to that one than you think. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/503 "2009-06-03T00:01:39Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Hey. At least I know where I came from, unlike all you zombies… 😃 One of his better ones, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/504 "2009-06-03T00:51:12Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > 😃 One of his better ones, isn’t it? Without a doubt. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/505 "2009-06-03T00:54:00Z")
[Here’s](http://jezebel.com/5275849/tillers-patients-speak-the-tragedy-of-his-death-the-inspiration-of-his-life) a link to some stories from women who received abortions form Dr. Tiller or at Tiller’s Women’s Health Clinic. > [@](#): > > My husband and I found Dr. George Tiller to be a caring, sensitive, and compassionate man who truly believed he was helping those of us who were desperate and had nowhere else to go. While we were at his clinic, he was very concerned about an 11-year-old child raped by her stepfather. And, when we were tormented by Operation Rescue protesters outside his clinic, he put on a bullet proof vest and personally drove us out of there while we hid in his van. > [@](#): > > ``` > The reality is that abortion in the late second and third trimesters is extremely rare. The reality is that finding a doctor to do this procedure in the late second or third trimester is almost impossible. For me, the reality was that at the most painful time of my life I had to travel out of state, stay in a hotel room and face hostile protesters in order to carry out this most personal of choices. [...] > > ``` > > My only advice is don’t let “them” define this for you. It is still your choice, your child and your life. I started to react as if the protesters were talking to me personally and indeed felt like everything they said was directed at me. In truth, they never see the real people behind the rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/506 "2009-06-03T01:30:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > All you are doing is redefining and degrading the phrase “human life” as meaning something not of any real worth. Playing word games won’t make those mindless single cells anything other than mindless single cells. If a sperm cell or a few million cells in a womb is a “human life”, then it’s perfectly all right to destroy “human lives” by the millions or billions or trillions. Because renaming them doesn’t make them more valuable. > > They passed the Mexico City Policy, which pressured medical organizations all over the world to not perform or even talk about abortion. They hurt and killed quite a few women that way, which I’m sure was the real goal. “Every woman who dies is a victory for morality”, is what Randall Terry said back then. I should have clearified my statement: Each sperm contains (Human) Life so since only one (as a rule) sperm impregnates the ova, the rest of the millions, or what ever number a man has at an ejaculation dies. My point is that “life” even human life is a passed on thing; had it not been for our ancestors, non of us would exist. The anti abortion people say it is a matter of when life begins, or began. If one values human life then that person will see to it that all the already born humans are taken care of and try not to concieve a child unless it is sure it is going to be taken care of. One can value human life by being responsible, if one isn’t able, or ready to take on the responsibility of caring for a child through adulthood, then they should at least take precautions not to conceive until they are. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/507 "2009-06-03T06:35:32Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Crafter\_Man** > > How can an opinion be “factually wrong”? If it’s my opinion he’s a baby killer, then it’s my opinion he’s a baby killer. > > When it’s based on ignorance? > [@flonks](#): > > Good grief, give this man a break. This is a matter of **opinions**. > As you do not **believe** that unborn children are babies, apparently, **cmyk** believes that they are babies. So what? How can you call this ignorance? This is bullshit. Can you just agree to disagree? Calling somebody having a different opinion “ignorant” is just plain stupid. … We haz findz teh jus plane stoopid, an iz U!!!1!!!ONE!1!EXCLAMATION!POINT!!1!!ELEVEN!!! Of course that’s just, ya know, like, my opinion, man. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/508 "2009-06-03T07:21:03Z")
For such a radical Pinko-Commie as I’ve often been labeled here, I find it rather odd that although, in general, I strongly favor woman’s rights and specifically, the right to abort, I don’t quite understand the callousness of some of the posters here towards the act itself. Not a religious man myself as some of you might know, but I do not think religion is the sole ingredient that makes some of the participants on either side of this debate rather irrational. That said, other than strongly disagreeing with **Starving’s** denouncement of Dr Tiller (whom I think facts show was a certain asset to his community and the families he _obviously_ helped in what were surely some of their most trying times), I do also have to say, that for the most part I agree almost completely with his views vis-a-vis both the seriousness of the act itself, and, what to me seems an obvious fact as well. And that is that _at some point_ you’re making a conscious decision to kill a potentially imperfect human being, but a _human being_ none the less…IOW, just like any of us. That alone gives me quite a bit of pause w/regards to some of the almost gleeful comments I’ve read here about the procedure itself. Abortion _as form_ of birth control! Please, tell me we can do at least a bit better that _that_! I’d say more but surely the thread’s already been Goodwinized to bits. For now, suffice it to say that we are not exactly talking about lancing a boil… ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/509 "2009-06-03T07:26:54Z")
OOOOOps, my error, fair enough. What does not change my posting : it’s still an opinion, claiming “ignorance” is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/510 "2009-06-03T08:12:47Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > That said, other than strongly disagreeing with **Starving’s** denouncement of Dr Tiller… As nice as it is when on those rare occasions we find ourselves in agreement with each other (and not to detract from the overall message of your post itself), I do feel compelled to point out that I have not denounced Dr. Tiller. In fact, I believe my only reference to him was with regard to his having been under investigation for violating Kansas law, which was true. It was then pointed out to me that the investigation went nowhere and that he was found not guilty of the 19 charges that had been brought against him, and so I let the issue drop. To the best of my recollection that is the only comment I’ve made about him. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/511 "2009-06-03T10:07:30Z")
> [@flonks](#): > > What does not change my posting : it’s still an opinion, claiming “ignorance” is wrong. Nah. There are informed opinions and there are ignorant opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/512 "2009-06-03T12:28:27Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Nah. There are informed opinions and there are ignorant opinions. Just poke around 9/11 conspiracy threads for examples. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/513 "2009-06-03T14:01:58Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Just poke around 9/11 conspiracy threads for examples. No, thanks. My tolerance level for WONJCTs isn’t exactly high. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/514 "2009-06-03T14:19:08Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, thanks. My tolerance level for WONJCTs isn’t exactly high. You only say that because you are part of the conspiracy. fnord ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/515 "2009-06-03T14:38:52Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, thanks. My tolerance level for WONJCTs isn’t exactly high. Way Out Nut Job Conspiracy Theories? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/516 "2009-06-03T14:53:19Z")
> [@Bambro](#): > > Way Out Nut Job Conspiracy Theories? Wormhole Opening Neutron Jet Code Transmitter. It’s how you contact the lizard people. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/517 "2009-06-03T16:03:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Wormhole Opening Neutron Jet Code Transmitter. It’s how you contact the lizard people. You’re one of THEM!!! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/518 "2009-06-03T16:41:17Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > We haz findz teh jus plane stoopid, an iz U!!!1!!!ONE!1!EXCLAMATION!POINT!!1!!ELEVEN!!! > > Of course that’s just, ya know, like, my opinion, man. > > CMC fnord! I’m with ya, Crow. There are opinions, and there is bullshit. There are disagreements, and there is stupidity. Some people are just fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/519 "2009-06-03T20:24:38Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m with ya, Crow. There are opinions, and there is bullshit. There are disagreements, and there is stupidity. Some people are just fucking stupid. Who decides whose opinion is bullshit? Is it like, believers talk bullshit in the eyes of atheists, and atheists talk bullshit in the eyes of believers. Seems to be complicated. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/520 "2009-06-03T20:37:38Z")
> [@flonks](#): > > Who decides whose opinion is bullshit? Is it like, believers talk bullshit in the eyes of atheists, and atheists talk bullshit in the eyes of believers. > > Seems to be complicated. I make that decision for myself. I choose for myself, what to accept and what to reject, based on my own experiences, knowledge, and available information. Are you saying I have to blindly accept and respect every hair brained bit of nonsense that comes along? So yes, for me, I decide what makes sense and what is bullshit. Nobody does it for me, nobody will decide for me or tell me what is or isn’t bullshit. Bullshit is bullshit, no matter who believes it, no matter how many believe it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=27)