# Doctor who performed abortions shot to death. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280 "2009-05-31T19:55:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/81 "2009-06-01T01:50:21Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > Is the inability to understand basic grammar a requirement for posting comments on YouTube? U mst spele dis badlee too poast. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/82 "2009-06-01T01:51:32Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Secular law only, as if I need to specify. Come to think of, where you’re concerned, it seems I do. No you don’t…read the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/83 "2009-06-01T01:58:59Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > Oh, blow it out yer ass.It was a joke,I knew who he was refering to…and yes he was. If every doctor who performs abortions is a “piece of shit murderer,” then why aren’t you out there doing your own part to stop them? Are you just a chickenshit or what? Saving the lives of babies isn’t worth tossing salads in prison for? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/84 "2009-06-01T02:03:25Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > No you don’t…read the thread. Hmm. You _did_ lay a claim to being an atheist above, didn’t you? My apologies, and I retract the snark. I do not retract the request for a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/85 "2009-06-01T02:06:58Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > Keep saying that,if it makes ya feel better. Feel better about what? I think what he did was heroic. I think people should be holding candlight vigils right now. Dr. Tiller was an expemplary Christian. His work was compassionate, morally right and courageous in the face of threats and violence. Just out of curiosity, how do people like you conceptualize the motives of people like Dr. Tiller? Do you imagine that they are literally sociopathic, remorseless, evil sadists who love killing babies? How do you honestly perceive their motives and psyches? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/86 "2009-06-01T02:07:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The women he treated did not want abortion, they had no option. Something had gone very, very wrong, and there was no other choice. Is this true? I know I read he did perform late-term abortions, but I did not see where it specified that they were done because there was a specific threat to the mother’s life for giving birth or because the fetus was malformed, had Down’s Syndrome, etc. Cite? My only complaint with abortion is it’s use as birth control after the fact. Many women do this. It shouldn’t be. There are better ways of birth control than vacuuming a fetus out of your cootchie rather than taking the pill, insisting your partner wear a condom, etc. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/87 "2009-06-01T02:11:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If every doctor who performs abortions is a “piece of shit murderer,” then why aren’t you out there doing your own part to stop them? Did I say I wasn’t? > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Hmm. You _did_ lay a claim to being an atheist above, didn’t you? My apologies, and I retract the snark. > > I do not retract the request for a cite. Apology accepted. I really,really wish I had one. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/88 "2009-06-01T02:12:07Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > My only complaint with abortion is it’s use as birth control after the fact. Many women do this. Since you’re neither a woman nor an abortion provider, I have to ask: cite? Interesting Huffington Post article [here](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristina-page/the-murder-of-dr-tiller-a_b_209562.html) which suggests that this is just the first indication that there will be a significant increase in abortion-related violence during the Obama Administration. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/89 "2009-06-01T02:19:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Since you’re neither a woman nor an abortion provider, I have to ask: cite? > > Interesting Huffington Post article [here](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristina-page/the-murder-of-dr-tiller-a_b_209562.html) which suggests that this is just the first indication that there will be a significant increase in abortion-related violence during the Obama Administration. Two ex-girlfriends aborted pregnancies of ours because we were breaking up? Look, I have no cite, and yes, I am neither a woman nor a provider of these services, but you have to be naive to think that many, many women don’t get abortions just for the simple fact that they do not want to have a baby, which could have been prevented by taking obvious birth control precautions. Women can do whatever the fuck they want, but I still will go on believing that women that get abortions after failing to practice safe(er) sex are not to be lauded, at all. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/90 "2009-06-01T02:20:02Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > Did I say I wasn’t? > > Apology accepted. > > I really,really wish I had one. Maybe wishing for one will make it magically come into existence! Until it does, please be good enough to refrain from characterizing the late doctor as a piece of shit murderer. There is such a thing as defamation, and even granting that it has no legal consequences in the context of this thread, it does tend to make one look like an @$$hole. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/91 "2009-06-01T02:21:57Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Women can do whatever the fuck they want, but I still will go on believing that women that get abortions after failing to practice safe(er) sex are not to be lauded, at all. Thanks for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/92 "2009-06-01T02:34:03Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Is this true? I know I read he did perform late-term abortions, but I did not see where it specified that they were done because there was a specific threat to the mother’s life for giving birth or because the fetus was malformed, had Down’s Syndrome, etc. > > Cite? Late term abortions are only legal in Kansas if two doctors independently verify the medical necessity of such procedure to save a woman’s life or prevent “substantial and irreversible” harm to “a major bodily function.”. [http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE52Q73J20090327](http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE52Q73J20090327) As per the above, Dr. Tiller performed only legal abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/93 "2009-06-01T02:34:51Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Is this true? I know I read he did perform late-term abortions, but I did not see where it specified that they were done because there was a specific threat to the mother’s life for giving birth or because the fetus was malformed, had Down’s Syndrome, etc. 3rd trimester abortions are [illegal in Kansas](http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_65/Article_67/65-6703.html) unless “(1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.” That’s actually the case in most states. 3rd trimester abortions are extremely rare – something like 1/16 of 1% of all abortions performed, and are virtually always done only for very compelling medical reasons. Few doctors are willing to perform them even then. The image of a cackling “abortionist,” gleefully stabbing away at healthy, full term babies is total, demagogic mythology. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/94 "2009-06-01T02:39:51Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Two ex-girlfriends aborted pregnancies of ours because we were breaking up? Look, I have no cite, and yes, I am neither a woman nor a provider of these services, but you have to be naive to think that many, many women don’t get abortions just for the simple fact that they do not want to have a baby, which could have been prevented by taking obvious birth control precautions. > > Women can do whatever the fuck they want, but I still will go on believing that women that get abortions after failing to practice safe(er) sex are not to be lauded, at all. So if you weren’t breaking up, they would have carried the children to term? That seems like it has less to do with abortion as contraception and more to do with how your relationships were going. I’m sure that many women do have abortions because they don’t want to have babies. That doesn’t mean they didn’t take obvious birth control precautions (though presumably lots didn’t). It also doesn’t tell you whether or not the other responsible party (ie., the male) took just-as-obvious precautions. Unfortunately, while pregnancies are charged to both participants in sex, the abortion is only blamed on one. I don’t understand your last sentence at all. Who on earth is praising women for having abortions? ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/95 "2009-06-01T02:41:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Feel better about what? I think what he did was heroic. Jeezus…I do not understand this mentality > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think people should be holding candlight vigils right now. So do I > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Dr. Tiller was an expemplary Christian. Ohhhhhkay > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > His work was compassionate, morally right and courageous in the face of threats and violence. Very courageous,and I mean that…I am sure he knew he had a target on his back.(And i do not condone his murder) > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Just out of curiosity, how do people like you conceptualize the motives of people like Dr. Tiller? Do you imagine that they are literally sociopathic, remorseless, evil sadists who love killing babies? How do you honestly perceive their motives and psyches? I think Dr Tiller was probably a Vikings fan. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/96 "2009-06-01T02:45:25Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > Jeezus…I do not understand this mentality He was providing medical care to people who couldn’t get it anywhere else, knowing that it would probably get him killed. How is that _not_ heroic? ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/97 "2009-06-01T02:46:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He was providing medical care to people who couldn’t get it anywhere else, knowing that it would probably get him killed. How is that _not_ heroic? Good point ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/98 "2009-06-01T02:56:02Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Two ex-girlfriends aborted pregnancies of ours because we were breaking up? Look, I have no cite, and yes, I am neither a woman nor a provider of these services, but you have to be naive to think that many, many women don’t get abortions just for the simple fact that they do not want to have a baby, which could have been prevented by taking obvious birth control precautions. I think it is inarguably true that many, if not most women get abortions because they don’t want babies during that given time and circumstance, and it’s also true that many of those women were lackadaisical about contraception (though some pregnancies still occur _despite_ efforts to use contraception), but I don’t think it’s true that very many of them consciously decide that they would _rather_ get abortions than use birth control. More often they just _end up_ pregnant, for whatever reason. They didn’t put enough thought into what they were doing beforehand (very often the case), or they were not well enough informed about what causes pregnancy (shockingly common), or they foolishly gambled and lost. I think the chances of pregnancy just don’t seem REAL to a lot of them until it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/99 "2009-06-01T03:07:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In other words, to you the woman isn’t human, she’s just a brood mare. A womb with legs. The pain, the risk, the long term health consequences of pregnancy don’t matter to you. And if she dies it’s what the bitch deserves, right ? “The slut should have kept her legs shut.” > > In other words, you are quite happy about it but lack the guts to admit it. Yeah, that’s the logical conclusion one could draw from my post. I think pregnant women shouldn’t kill their babies. Therefore, they’re not humans. No no, Der Trihs, it’s you that think humans aren’t humans. Except it’s the unborn that you consider “just a lump of cells”. Sorta like…well, I dunno…you, for instance. The pain, the risk, and the long term health consequences are minimal and infintessimally small compared to the life of the child. Full disclosure: I think life begins at roughly 10 weeks. If you want to round it off to the first trimester, I’m cool with that. If there were a way to find out when the fetus has brain waves and a functioning heart, let’s call that life. I believe you shouldn’t terminate pregnancy because it inconveniences you. The woman’s life or health must be at risk. So no, if ‘the bitch’ dies, she doesn’t deserve it. It’s that I think most of these women aren’t going to die. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280/100 "2009-06-01T03:15:12Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Yeah, that’s the logical conclusion one could draw from my post. I think pregnant women shouldn’t kill their babies. Therefore, they’re not humans. No no, Der Trihs, it’s you that think humans aren’t humans. Except it’s the unborn that you consider “just a lump of cells”. Sorta like…well, I dunno…you, for instance. The pain, the risk, and the long term health consequences are minimal and infintessimally small compared to the life of the child. It’s certainly impossible for anything that could accurately be described as a “brain wave” to occur prior to the 20th week, because no human foetal cortex develops neurons, dendrites and axons and begins running synapses across them prior to that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-performed-abortions-shot-to-death/498280.md?page=6)