# Doctor Who Revival S8E2 -- Into the Dalek (boxed spoilers until it airs on the West Coast) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 30, 2014, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950 "2014-08-30T11:46:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/41 "2014-09-01T21:55:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What a bizarre observation. “Why would a young, single woman want to take an attractive man who has a good job and likes working with children out for a drink? What possible motive could she have?!” I dunno, **Sage Rat**. Maybe it’s mind control. After he stared her down for making a joke and forced her to explain? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/42 "2014-09-01T22:30:53Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > After he stared her down for making a joke and forced her to explain? :dubious: I’m not sure what part of that scene you think regardless reflects badly on him. After that introduction, I think Pink would be more than justified in telling her to go fuck herself, because she was acting legitimately horrible to him. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/43 "2014-09-01T22:50:40Z")
I haven’t seen the episode, but IIRC from reading about it, the Second Doctor in _Evil of the Daleks_ was kidnapped by them and forced to work on them somehow so that they’d be able to defeat him. As it turned out, he sabotaged them so that they were good and started a Dalek civil war. Guess that was too long ago to reference in this episode. As Rusty was leaving, he made some comment about the Doctor (can’t remember what) and was shaking its eyestalk, along the lines of someone “shaking their head”, tsk, tsk. Think I’ll say SME instead of SMH from now on. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/44 "2014-09-01T23:17:56Z")
Is there a history in \*Doctor Who \*of depicting or referencing life-after-death for humans? (As opposed to regeneration for Time Lords and that sort of ‘aliens are different’ thing). ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/45 "2014-09-01T23:28:39Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Is there a history in \*Doctor Who \*of depicting or referencing life-after-death for humans? (As opposed to regeneration for Time Lords and that sort of ‘aliens are different’ thing). There’s been a bit of “what people believe about the afterlife”, but I can’t think of anything more than that. Not on TV anyway, and I heavily suspect the current Missy story-line isn’t going to go that way either. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/46 "2014-09-01T23:29:31Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > I was reminded of the _Star Trek:TNG_ episode when Hugh the Borg showed up. In it, the plan is for the crew to send Hugh back to the Borg with a dangerous program hidden inside him that will spread like a plague. I was kind of thinking that The Doctor and friends were going to send Rusty back to the Daleks so that his plague of goodness could spread. Not that it was going to turn all the Daleks good, but it probably would be disruptive. Resistance is futile! Anyway, new guy is very different from the last few, and I think that’s a good thing. Much as I love the Smith/Tennant style, it’s nice to see a different take. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/47 "2014-09-01T23:42:14Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > There’s been a bit of “what people believe about the afterlife”, but I can’t think of anything more than that. Not on TV anyway, and I heavily suspect the current Missy story-line isn’t going to go that way either. I’m hoping that you’re right. I’d hate to have this show go all supernatural on us. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/48 "2014-09-02T00:42:36Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I’m hoping that you’re right. I’d hate to have this show go all supernatural on us. Well, they did have that one episode with THE LORD OF DARKNESS HIMSELF, SATAN, PRINCE OF LIES. :rolleyes: > [@Miller](#): > > It’s also not entirely clear if the last soldier actually died, or not. The first guy is full on disintegrated - the second soldier screams, there’s a bright light, and then she’s in “heaven.” She could have been grabbed away at the last moment, the same way the Doctor did to Journey. Fair enough, but half-faced man looked pretty darn dead–we didn’t see if he jumped, or was pushed, but we did see him impaled on a church spire or something along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/49 "2014-09-02T00:56:10Z")
That’s a good point, but he’s also partially artificial - he might have been fixable in a way a disintegrated human generally is not. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/50 "2014-09-02T01:22:46Z")
River Song ended up in some kind of virtual paradise - in her first appearance, of course, working backwards towards her origin… ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/51 "2014-09-02T08:04:20Z")
The Tom Baker version of this story terrified me as a child, so it was fun to revisit that. My God, there were some clunky lines though. _Clara: It’s working! We’re turning the memories back on!_ Aargh. This show has the concept of ‘family-friendly’ the wrong way around. Instead of having a plot kids can appreciate, with some subtle stuff for adults to pick up on, they take adult concepts (like the moral ambiguity of the Doctor) and hammer us all over the head with them. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/52 "2014-09-02T08:52:08Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > She’s seen what he is capable of, the good and the bad. Even the hugglesome squeee-worthy Tenth Doctor committed at least one genocide I think trying to eliminate a species of mind controlled killer cyborgs whose sole reason for living is murdering all other forms of life in the universe is about the most justifiable genocide there is.(assuming you mean the Daleks) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/53 "2014-09-02T11:47:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I strong dislike the current Doctors attitude about soldiers. One of the Doctor’s closest friends was General Lethbridge-Stewart. This Doctor is insulting a lot of fine people that put their lives at risk to protect their countries. The Doctor served with Unit for years. He himself fought in the time wars. I initially took it as a dislike of people who simply follow orders without thought – not of soldiers qua soldiers, but of soldiers qua mindless army ants. However, the girl Wossername Blue hit a point where she DIDN’T follow orders, so I’m confused a bit as to why he didn’t accept her in the Tardis. Overall, I was disappointed in this episode. I found it pretty much predictable – that a repaired dalek would be a dalek, that the two red-shirts would both be killed, that Blue would ask to go with him (I thought he’d take her, though, as above.) And once they mentioned miniaturization (and referenced the movie FANTASTIC VOYAGE), I was sure they’d bring in anti-bodies. In short, I gave it a meh rating. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/54 "2014-09-02T12:03:58Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I think trying to eliminate a species of mind controlled killer cyborgs whose sole reason for living is murdering all other forms of life in the universe is about the most justifiable genocide there is.(assuming you mean the Daleks) I was thinking of the Racnoss. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/55 "2014-09-02T14:44:46Z")
I didn’t like this episode, and it’s hard to pin down why. I think my issue is with the possibility of a “good” Dalek. While it does make sense Rusty would have an epiphany upon witnessing the birth of a star, his determination to exterminate all Daleks as a result just seems so infantile. If you recall the 2005 episode [Dalek](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek_(Doctor_Who_episode)), that particular Dalek decided to self-destruct when it couldn’t fulfill its mission of destroying everything non-Dalek. [The Cult of Skaro](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_Skaro) were programmed to think like their enemies and establish individual identities. That usually led to disaster. Dalek Sek transformed into a human/Dalek hybrid, and the other cultists decided to “imagine him irrelevant.” Dalek Caan went insane and engineered the Daleks’ defeat in [Journey’s End](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey%27s_End_(Doctor_Who)). Rusty just seems to accept the notion of being a “good Dalek” without the inner turmoil that makes Daleks even more destructive when faced with contrary programming. Maybe that’s what will develop in a future storyline. Rusty will convince the other Daleks the validity of rebirth, and they’ll develop a moral reason to destroy the universe, so that whatever rises from the ashes will be superior to the original version. We’ll see… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/56 "2014-09-02T15:30:46Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > I didn’t like this episode, and it’s hard to pin down why. > > I think my issue is with the possibility of a “good” Dalek. While it does make sense Rusty would have an epiphany upon witnessing the birth of a star, his determination to exterminate all Daleks as a result just seems so infantile. That made a lot of sense to me. The Dalek’s only method of self-expression is genocide. It seems completely logical to me that a Dalek who somehow realized that the Daleks as a race were evil, would react by wanting to destroy the Daleks - it would literally be the only way he could conceive of expressing the idea, “The Daleks are wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/57 "2014-09-02T16:48:47Z")
Finally got a chance to finish watching it this morning, loved it. Don’t think anyone’s mentioned my favorite bit of dialog, from near the beginning: “Hey, it’s smaller on the outside!” “Yeah. More exciting when you go the other way.” ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/58 "2014-09-02T16:53:47Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Don’t think anyone’s mentioned my favorite bit of dialog, from near the beginning: > > “Hey, it’s smaller on the outside!” > “Yeah. More exciting when you go the other way.” My two favorite lines were: “Yeah. She’s my carer. She cares so I don’t have to.” and “Fantastic idea for a movie. Terrible idea for a proctologist.” ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/59 "2014-09-03T01:59:00Z")
Ok episode. I wasn’t wowed by it, but it’ll do. I was hoping that the miniaturization would be a call back to the Teselecta. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950/60 "2014-09-03T11:07:09Z")
First off, I had a cable issue during the exchange with Mr. Pink, so I didn’t get that full conversation. She met the new teacher, invited him off for a drink, he said no, she offered him a chance to change his mind, which he declined, then he went off to his classroom, to berate himself for being stupid and saying no instead of yes. And then she showed up and caught him berating himself, embarring moment. Then? It was all kind of a mess, I didn’t really care for that editing. They called the shrink ray a “nanoscaler”, but they weren’t nanoscale, were they? I mean, they were tiny, but not “walk around in the blood vessels” tiny. I don’t know what the Doctor thought he was getting with repairing the Dalek. Yeah, fix the problem, make the Dalek return to being a Dalek. Don’t know what he expected to accomplish making the Dalek see the wonder of the universe and inside his own head. Would have made more sense to do something to that memory core thingy that shapes the Daleks instead of just restoring the memories from it. Seems like changing the way it works would get rid of the “exterminate” mentality. I was a little thrown by the attitude toward the first death, but it did make sense. He screamed at them No a couple times, but then he knew he didn’t have any way to save the guy, at least make his death useful. Practical and focused on the future. I didn’t understand his rejection of Journey Blue at the end. So what if she’s a soldier? Maybe she’s wanting to come with you and quitting the army? Maybe that’s her growth mode. Versus, say, Martha Jones, who went off and _became_ a soldier running UNIT. Or Mickey Smith. All to set up his growth with Mr. Pink? :rolleyes: I did like that Clara had something to do, and the Doctor trusted her to do something on her own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e2-into-the-dalek-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/696950.md?page=4)