# Doctor Who Revival S8E4 -- Listen (boxed spoilers until it airs on the West Coast) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 13, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382 "2014-09-13T12:36:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/21 "2014-09-14T03:55:29Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > “Fear makes companions of us all” For those who didn’t get the reference, The Doctor repeated a line from the first ever story, _An Unearthly Child_, 1963. I liked the episode. Best single episode since David Tennant, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/22 "2014-09-14T05:00:19Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > I _loved_ this episode. It’s my favorite so far of the four Capaldi eps I’ve seen. Capaldi has already cemented his place as my second favorite Doctor (behind only Ten). I did _not_ see that ending coming, and my reaction to it was very similar to the “No sir…all THIRTEEN!” bit at the end of the 50th Anniversary special. I agree with this. I am \*really \*loving Capaldi, much much more than I did Matt Smith. I didn’t see the ending coming at all and it literally made me say “Oh shit!” out loud. It’s been a while since I saw the 50th Anniversary special though, so can someone remind me what happened with John Hurt at that barn/house structure? Oh, and I thought when the figure removed the blanket from it’s head that there was something non-human about it’s head? Like the eyes were weird? ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/23 "2014-09-14T05:31:32Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > It’s been a while since I saw the 50th Anniversary special though, so can someone remind me what happened with John Hurt at that barn/house structure? That was the place where he walked a long way from the TARDIS to get to, and where he was planning to activate The Moment. BTW, love the post/username combination. Of course you have to like Capaldi–you “Eyebrows of Doom” types have to stick together! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/24 "2014-09-14T08:18:31Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > So, if nothing was really there then I guess it was another kid underneath the blanket, but at the end of the universe who or what knocked on the door… DOCTOR: Potentially the hull cooling. CLARA: Potentially? DOCTOR: Believably. > [@Nobody](#): > > …and then opened it? DOCTOR: It’s a pressure lock – releasing it could have triggered the opening mechanism. > [@Nobody](#): > > Who or what wrote listen on the chalk board? CLARA: It looks like your handwriting. DOCTOR: Well, I couldn’t have written it and forgotten, could I? CLARA: Have you met you? I think that pretty much clears it up. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/25 "2014-09-14T08:21:16Z")
That said, a monster that only does things that could plausibly be explained by more mundane explanations (call it Occam’s Demon) would be an awesome idea for a story. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/26 "2014-09-14T08:44:30Z")
Wasn’t a huge fan of the story, it was a bit Sapphire and Steel for me, but still loving Capaldi. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/27 "2014-09-14T08:50:36Z")
I’m finding the constant insulting of Clara’s looks to be off-putting. It makes him seem like a dick (which I don’t think is the show’s intention). Clara will probably declare war on him at some point if he keeps it up. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/28 "2014-09-14T08:57:25Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > DOCTOR: Potentially the hull cooling. > CLARA: Potentially? > DOCTOR: Believably. > > DOCTOR: It’s a pressure lock – releasing it could have triggered the opening mechanism. > > CLARA: It looks like your handwriting. > DOCTOR: Well, I couldn’t have written it and forgotten, could I? > CLARA: Have you met you? > > I think that pretty much clears it up. 😉 Wow, I guess I missed that dialog. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/29 "2014-09-14T09:34:48Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I’m finding the constant insulting of Clara’s looks to be off-putting. It makes him seem like a dick (which I don’t think is the show’s intention). Clara will probably declare war on him at some point if he keeps it up. Yeah, his constant Clara negging is really grating on me. Part of it might be Capaldi, they would probably sound better coming from 11 since he had a history of making confusing, slightly rude, flippant comments about everything. It comes off as more mean spirited with 12’s “grumpy old man” schtick. (Though even with 11 doing it **every episode** would have been obnoxious too) ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/30 "2014-09-14T11:29:16Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Yeah, his constant Clara negging is really grating on me. Part of it might be Capaldi, they would probably sound better coming from 11 since he had a history of making confusing, slightly rude, flippant comments about everything. It comes off as more mean spirited with 12’s “grumpy old man” schtick. > > (Though even with 11 doing it **every episode** would have been obnoxious too) If the show would just be like “NuWho’s a dick, and an anti-hero,” I’d probably take it better. But I feel like the show wants me to view NuWho as an angsty hero who has to make tough choices. But they keep writing him as a colossal dick. It’s annoying. I mean, it’s still better than Torchwood. And what else am I going to watch? But it’s annoying. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/31 "2014-09-14T14:08:48Z")
1. I see his insulting Clara’s looks as his (and the writers’) trying to figure out what his relationship with her should be. Flirty or even romantic is ruled out (and they do want to cement that). A fatherly (or grandfatherly) mentor like some have been, no. Buddies or pals like Donna, no, but more like. Competitive like with Romana, no, but on some level his better or equal so maybe some twinge of that. He knows her looks are just fine and that she knows it too, so it is not jerkish so much as a safe form of playfulness, not quite playing the dozens but establishing that element. 2. Agreed that playing with tropes can be good. _This_ whole ep was a playing with tropes. The _name_ sets it up, as a reference to “Blink” as is the premise being referenced that scary things are there that you just can’t see (because they only happen when you blink or look away or because they are hiding). It _uses_ that trope. As the knocking outside the ship referenced our expectations from “Midnight” and the Drums arc. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/32 "2014-09-14T14:38:52Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > Was it just me or did anyone else see some creatures that looked like the MoW from _Planet of the Dead_ flying in the background when Clara first looked out the window? Those were spots of dirt on the porthole window - they looked like tgey were moving because the camera was doing a zoom/dolly thing. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/33 "2014-09-14T19:26:24Z")
Bleh. I feel like Moffat is writing this whole series from five miles up his own ass. An occasional exploration of who the Doctor is, what motivates him, etc - fine. But does every single damn episode have to be some sort of big philosophical reassessment of what it really MEANS to be the Doctor? How about he just derails some evil alien plans here or there? Also, I REALLY don’t like this idea of Clara as his Eternal Nanny. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/34 "2014-09-14T20:15:59Z")
I’m not quite sure who’s seen what yet, so I’ll spoiler this just in case: So, they just went straight to Gallifrey, right? Isn’t that kind of a big deal? Wasn’t finding Gallifrey at least teased to be the big arc for twelve? ---
**Author:** ![minionkat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@minionkat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minionkat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/35 "2014-09-14T20:53:10Z")
So, is Pink a descendant of the Doctor? He had the “family heirloom” soldier without a gun that Clara gave the baby Doctor. Also, there was the Doctor’s line “Dad trick” when he put young Rupert to sleep. I know they spent a lot of the episode trying to make us think that Orson (the first time they said his name, I thought it was Captain Awesome Pink - heck of a name) was the descendant of Clara and Danny. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/36 "2014-09-14T21:14:18Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I’m not quite sure who’s seen what yet, so I’ll spoiler this just in case: > > So, they just went straight to Gallifrey, right? Isn’t that kind of a big deal? Wasn’t finding Gallifrey at least teased to be the big arc for twelve? Gallifrey has always been time-locked in a way that makes it synchronous with the Time Lord’s life. Meaning that when Time Lords go to Gallifrey, they always have to go linearly. 5 can’t go to a point in Gallifrey’s history before the last time 4 did. And so on (this was a big deal in 6’s run with the trial). The Doctor had disabled the safeties on the TARDIS, which must have allowed it to bypass that Time Lock and go to Gallifrey **at a point when the Doctor was still a kid**. Capaldi’s goal is to get to Gallifrey, yes, but **his** Gallifrey. The Gallifrey that’s already suffered the effects of the Time War, not the Gallifrey of ages past. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/37 "2014-09-14T21:46:39Z")
Well so Clara is now the impossible girl who has helped the Doctor out randomly throughout his entire working life, PLUS the person who gave him his first push towards becoming The Doctor? At this rate, they’re going to end up revealing that Clara is… actually the Doctor’s mother. After all, we all, always have our mother looking over us - which is what Clara does. I wouldn’t be surprised, though I think that’s a vaguely crappy idea. > [@minionkat](#): > > So, is Pink a descendant of the Doctor? He had the “family heirloom” soldier without a gun that Clara gave the baby Doctor. In real-world terms, it would be more likely that the life of the toy goes: 1970/1980’s UK: Manufactured. Shipped out and sold. Soldier loses its gun at some point. Rupert gets the soldier. 2070/2080’s UK: Great grandson Pink takes soldier to the end of the Universe. End of the Universe: Clara takes it. Old Gallifrey: Clara drops it off with the Doctor. Eventually the Doctor loses it (or simply has it packed away somewhere on the Tardis). Though, this being a work of fiction, it’s possible that the soldier is in some sort of time loop. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/38 "2014-09-14T22:11:00Z")
> [@minionkat](#): > > So, is Pink a descendant of the Doctor? He had the “family heirloom” soldier without a gun that Clara gave the baby Doctor. No. It goes like this: Young Danny acquired the toy soldier from the home. It passed on to his descendants, eventually inherited by Capt. Orton Awsome Pink. Clara took it from Orton and gave it to Young Doc. Whether the Doctor still has it, was not said. > [@](#): > > Also, there was the Doctor’s line “Dad trick” when he put young Rupert to sleep. I know they spent a lot of the episode trying to make us think that Orson (the first time they said his name, I thought it was Captain Awesome Pink - heck of a name) was the descendant of Clara and Danny. He is presumed to be Danny’s. The Doctor speculated that he’s Clara’s descendant, because The TARDIS was supposed to travel along Clara’s timeline. This has not been confirmed yet. He doesn’t recognise her from family photos, though, so possibly not. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/39 "2014-09-14T23:17:32Z")
So why does not adult Doctor recognize the soldier when Clara sets up the perimeter under Rupert’s bed? Either sloppy writing (could be, just wave some sparkley time-whimey) or he played dumb and I think the latter with reasons to be espoused. He certainly is not so dense as to believe that Clara did not remember being in that children’s home. But then he certainly _did_ believe in the perfectly hiding creature under the bed and _was_ wanting to see it. Travel along Clara’s _timeline_ but not _location_. The location within the universe within her timeline, went to Rupert’s place on the night of his monster under the bed dream becasue she was thinking of Danny. Time travel runs in the family could be Clara, or Danny or both. I think he gives the soldier back to Danny at some point. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/40 "2014-09-14T23:19:47Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > … does every single damn episode have to be some sort of big philosophical reassessment of what it really MEANS to be the Doctor? … Yeah, the deep philospophical musings of last week’s Robin Hood adventure and now this. This all one tone, one theme is so tiresome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382.md?page=3)