# Doctor Who Revival S8E4 -- Listen (boxed spoilers until it airs on the West Coast) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 13, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382 "2014-09-13T12:36:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/61 "2014-09-15T18:05:46Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > I just went and made [one](http://www.imagebam.com/image/2b6d80351500354.jpg). Yeah, it was out of focus. Thanks! Out of focus or not, that ain’t human. Unless there’s a child at that home who’s bald and has freakishly large eyes, I’m ruling out a prank. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/62 "2014-09-15T18:51:52Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Thanks! Out of focus or not, that ain’t human. Unless there’s a child at that home who’s bald and has freakishly large eyes, I’m ruling out a prank. No, no, no. That’s Clara. Look in the out-of-focus background. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/63 "2014-09-15T19:10:56Z")
As my co-worker and I agreed, there was definitely a THING. We got a glimpse of it, it was there. It wasn’t a kid under the blanket, and there was something outside. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/64 "2014-09-15T19:11:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The Doctor’s mother is named Verity, not Clara. The bar for getting a name change isn’t all that high in the real world let alone fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/65 "2014-09-15T19:12:10Z")
> [@Infovore](#): > > I’ll have to go back and watch “Human Nature” and “The Family of Blood” again to spot them. Oh, darn, I have to watch two excellent Ten episodes again! However will I cope? 😃 It’s no hardship is it and to think that these two were followed the next week by “Blink”. I wish Paul Cornell would write more “Who” but he seems very busy in comics these days. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/66 "2014-09-15T19:56:14Z")
My problem with this episode is that it didn’t know what it wanted to be. A MOTW with a monster that is so good at hiding you never see it even though you’re subconsciously aware it’s there. That’s good. The doctor accidentally crossing his own timeline and Clara giving him a little push along the way? That’s also good. Both of them together? It’s like you totally forgot about the first plot and went off on a tangent you thought was cool and hoped nobody noticed. Plus, I didn’t like the “I’m doggedly searching for this thing, and I’ve found it! Wait, let’s not look at it, that’s silly.” Or the random searching for Danny’s descendent at the end of time, who’s clearly terrified to be there, and then making him go back". That’s callous even for the doctor. Capaldi is doing a great job as the doctor, but Moffat once again can’t get away from his own ego. Hey, that’s an idea for the next episode - “The Doctor and His Writer’s Enormous Ego” ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/67 "2014-09-15T20:33:24Z")
I agree with what he said. ^ ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/68 "2014-09-15T23:30:55Z")
@ **Knowed Out** : The footage of John Hurt as the “War Doctor” approaching the shack was in _The Day of the Doctor_ (the 50th anniversary show). FWIW, the Moment wasn’t stored there. The War Doctor carried it there after stealing it from Time Lord HQ. [QUOTE=Smapti] …this episode…struck me as nothing more than a retread of the Silence from a few years ago. {snip} [/QUOTE] I’m confused. Are you referring to the “Vashta Nerada” from _Silence in the Library_/_Forest of the Dead_ or the “Silents” from _The Impossible Astronaut_/_Day of the Moon_? [QUOTE=standingwave] I just went and made one. Yeah, it was out of focus. [/QUOTE] Ooh, thanks for that! [QUOTE=Frazzled] …[the tenth Doctor] mentioned that his mother was Verity and his father was Sydney. Both named for Verity Lambert and Sydney Newman. In any case, it was a false memory so I don’t think it’s his actual mothers name. [/QUOTE] At the end of _The End of Time_, Part 2, when the Doctor meets Joan Redfern’s descendant, the book jacket shows the author’s name as “Verity Newman”. I chuckled. [QUOTE=Infovore] No, probably not. I think his mother was the unnamed woman who appeared silently behind Rassilon in “The End of Time”… [/QUOTE] I’ve heard other people mention that and I don’t know where they’re getting that from. Please enlighten me. [QUOTE=Infovore] I missed the “Verity and Sydney” line, though. I’ll have to go back and watch “Human Nature” and “The Family of Blood” again to spot them. {snip} [/QUOTE] When the Doctor and Joan Redfern are walking to the village, they stop so the Doctor can fix a scarecrow that’s askew. [QUOTE=yellowjacketcoder] My problem with this episode is that it didn’t know what it wanted to be…etc. [/QUOTE] I thragree with what he said. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/69 "2014-09-15T23:40:34Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > A MOTW with a monster that is so good at hiding you never see it even though you’re subconsciously aware it’s there. That’s good. Oh, you mean like The Silence…or the Weeping Angels…or the Vashta Whatever shadow monsters on the abandoned library planet? Plus I’m sure there’s a bunch of similar monsters from classic who. I feel like a monster that’s so good at hiding that you don’t know it’s there has sort of been done. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/70 "2014-09-16T00:04:02Z")
> [@Toucanna](#): > > > [@Infovore](#): > > > > No, probably not. I think his mother was the unnamed woman who appeared silently behind Rassilon in “The End of Time”… > > I’ve heard other people mention that and I don’t know where they’re getting that from. Please enlighten me. Russel T. Davies and Stephen Moffat, the writers of the “End of Time” part 1 and 2. It wasn’t in the episodes themselves, it’s a “word of god” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/71 "2014-09-16T00:17:14Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] {snip} I feel like a monster that’s so good at hiding that you don’t know it’s there has sort of been done. [/QUOTE] You have a point. However, IMO, what I found refreshing about the Weeping Angels and the Vashta Nerada was that Moffat’s take on these monsters was to say, yes, you should be afraid of statues and the dark, but not for supernatural reasons. These are real creatures and this is how they operate. How the Chula nanogenes (_The Empty Child_/_The Doctor Dances_), the clockwork droids _(The Girl in the Fireplace_) and the crack in Amelia Pond’s bedroom’s wall fit into this theme deserves its own essay. But I’m not up to that right now. If Moffat wants to continue down the list (and, with “Listen” it appears he intends to), there are many “fairy tale/supernatural” beings for whom he could find a scientific (okay, “science fiction”) explanation. One of the reasons _Listen_ didn’t work for me was that the Doctor never figured out–and then explained to Clara/the audience–what the TUTB was and how it operated. Actually, that should be, “The Thing _On_ the Bed, Under the Bedspread”. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/72 "2014-09-16T01:02:21Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I feel like a monster that’s so good at hiding that you don’t know it’s there has sort of been done. Again, yes, that has been done so much it is _a trope_ of the series. The scary thing that is there with your not seeing it (or not seeing it move but it does when you blink or look away) is just prove of how good (bad) it is, similar to the scary thing that no one believes you have seen … The ep wouldn’t have worked if it, and the knocking, wasn’t so already done (or overdone). The point was to get everyone believing this was that trope yet again and then to subvert it. Sometimes a nothing, just a sense of fear … is just a nothing, just a sense of fear. Or at least not a monster. One time anyway. And that time helped one boy learn how to appreciate fear and use it and become The Doctor. That Clara crossed his timeline and sort of saved him again is a bit much but it is who she was meant to be. Still not sure if some loose bits are intentionally loose or just sloppiness or over-reaching … but _that part_, the sometimes the creaks we hear are just creaks … you never know … at least works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/73 "2014-09-16T02:48:42Z")
Finally got a chance to watch the episode. Then read through the thread. This early comment pretty much sums up my thoughts: > [@GuanoLad](#): > > It was weird. I’m not sure if I liked it. I’m not sure if I didn’t like it. I think it’s one that will be reassessed once the season is complete. I feel like we don’t know a few things. The monster under the covers…if there was something outside the door. I hope these are delved into in a later episode, somehow. I’m not really a fan of the Clara/Pink soap opera, but there seems to be a point to it, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/74 "2014-09-16T08:38:28Z")
I’m trying to reevaluate in light of others’ comments, but I didn’t like it. It felt like rehashed territory, like people have said. “Hasn’t Moffat already done this?” I’m beginning to side with the folks who are tired of Moffat. It’s getting old. I also don’t really like the Clara/Mr. Pink dynamic. It’s bizarre and annoying. I appreciate that he didn’t like her lying and she didn’t think she could say “Ok, the truth is my friend is a time traveler with a magic box.” Still, the rest of them trying so hard is painful to watch. I don’t care for the way the Doctor slams on Clara’s looks. I do appreciate that this episode actually used the TARDIS as a time travel device, as opposed to an entrance and exit tool to otherwise be ignored. If it all really was nothing, then what was under the blanket? That wasn’t human. And what was with the Doctor desperately seeking out the creature and then pointedly not looking at it? And then going looking for it again? WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/75 "2014-09-16T09:44:41Z")
[QUOTE=Irishman] {snip} If it all really was nothing, then what was under the blanket? {snip} [/QUOTE] Missy 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/76 "2014-09-16T09:51:53Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I’m beginning to side with the folks who are tired of Moffat. It’s getting old. I wouldn’t say I’m tired of Moffat - he’s a great writer when he forces himself to be original - but he has a habit of falling back on two or three plot devices that _he_ thinks are creepy and beats them like a dead horse. Body horror (clockwork aliens/gasmask monsters etc.), things that force you to subsume involuntarily bodily functions (don’t blink/don’t breathe/etc.) things that look like scary versions of regular things (Weeping Angels/fortune teller machine schoolmasters/etc.), and whereas Davies tended to flog the “The Doctor is Jesus” metaphor all day and night, Moffat has too much of a tendency to go the other way and flog “The Doctor is death and destruction and darkness and everyone he loves or touches will die and you’re a fool to ever trust him”. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/77 "2014-09-16T11:21:05Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > And what was with the Doctor desperately seeking out the creature and then pointedly not looking at it? And then going looking for it again? WTF? I took that as protecting young Rupert. The Thing would be angry at being seen and might turn violent. The Doctor wanted to find out what the thing was, but not at the expense of a young child’s life. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/78 "2014-09-16T13:23:12Z")
OK, this may be way off base, but the TUTB looks to be bald with deep set eyes. Like a Sontaran. [**standingwave** ’s screen capture](http://www.imagebam.com/image/2b6d80351500354.jpg) [Strax](http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110701041641/tardis/images/5/57/Nurse_Strax.jpg) Maybe Madame Vastra sent Strax to check on the Doctor and he’s being really circumspect about it. Or they just reused an old Sontaran head mask. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/79 "2014-09-16T15:42:40Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > It’s no hardship is it and to think that these two were followed the next week by “Blink”. I wish Paul Cornell would write more “Who” but he seems very busy in comics these days. I read a click bait article over the weekend, in which the writer rated every NuWho ep up to this season. He ranked “Human Nature/Family of Blood” as #1. I can’t fault him on that - it was a _tour de force_ by Tennant and by the actress who played Joan. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382/80 "2014-09-16T16:05:42Z")
Here’s a little “[Doctor Who Confidential](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukp2CiGP_eU)”-type thing about the latest episode. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-revival-s8e4-listen-boxed-spoilers-until-it-airs-on-the-west-coast/698382.md?page=5)