# Doctor Who September 20 2014 "Time Heist" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 20, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030 "2014-09-20T18:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/41 "2014-09-23T19:13:18Z")
I don’t mind people saying they don’t like an episode. It’s the point of the thread. I thought Into the Dalek was mainly a bore. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/42 "2014-09-23T19:20:46Z")
FWIW, I wasn’t terribly pleased w/ the stories over the Matt Smith era, and generally laid the problem at the feet of Moffat–after all, look at what he did to his creations, like the Angels! But I’m enjoying the heck out of this season so far–Doctor and individual episodes. I’m reserving judgment on the overal arc, but I’m pleased that it’s been left out of a few episodes (and just barely in Sherwood). OTOH, the new season came up on the open thread at wrestling site I visit, and people were Very Much Not Happy About This New Season. Not sure what the general opinion on the interwebs is so far… ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/43 "2014-09-23T23:00:56Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > The TARDIS could get anywhere in the Bank except for the main vault. The briefcases were left ahead of time, and then their memories were wiped so that when they entered the main vault none of the plans to free the Teller were in their heads, also wiping out their pre-planning memories. Which is ironic, because freeing the Teller’s mate is the only plan with guilt that would probably make the Teller stop scanning and not kill them. Why would he\* kill them if he sees they have a plan to free him and his mate? \*(Note: I have written here that the Teller on the outside was male and the one captive in the vault was female, but it could just as easily be the other way around, and could also be that male and female are inadequate/inappropriate descriptors to use for that species.) ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/44 "2014-09-23T23:08:07Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > But he gives her his number so she can regret it when she’s older and call him so he can give her his telephone number? That might make sense if she didn’t know why he was there, or he hadn’t been the one to send her bank gig crashing into oblivion. Somehow it just feels wrong. Forced. That’s just it. The Doctor will have no problem **forcing** someone to express regret - he can always add it to his to-do list right after the heist is over. In fact, I doubt they would do this, but I would really like to see one of those little webisodes (like the Pond Life ones) where he comes charging into Karabraxos’ late life hospice room, all fired up to show her what she’s done, Ghost-of-Christmas-Past style. > [@](#): > > And yes, the TARDIS has been incredibly responsive this season. Taking the Doctor and Clara where they want to go, not accidentally showing up other places. Set out for Tahiti, wind up in Kalamazoo, because that’s where they need to be. To be fair, the TARDIS readily admits it takes the Doctor where he needs to go - it’s just that where he needs to go is rarely where he _wants_ to go. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/45 "2014-09-24T00:41:35Z")
Anyone notice James Marsters’s picture amongst the pics when the cyber guy was calling up all the terrible criminals to attract the Teller? I caught that last week when I happened to pause the preview in just the right place. Just an interesting Torchwood call back or something more? Probably the former, but how cool would it be if he did show up on DW? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/46 "2014-09-24T01:00:56Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Which is ironic, because freeing the Teller’s mate is the only plan with guilt that would probably make the Teller stop scanning and not kill them. Why would he\* kill them if he sees they have a plan to free him and his mate? That wasn’t in fear of the Teller’s retribution, but because the Teller was linked to Madame Karabraxos she would have found out and killed them. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/47 "2014-09-24T01:12:23Z")
Ah - I forgot about the link to Karabraxos - good catch, **GuanoLad** ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/48 "2014-09-24T01:48:12Z")
I waited a few days after watching this before commenting. I’ve decided that I pretty much liked the episode. A few minor nits, but nothing that made me unhappy with it. I chuckled at the bowtie and scarf references. That’s it…just didn’t want to only post on the negative side. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/49 "2014-09-24T02:53:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] {snip} …I don’t have an Internet’s worth of thread-shitters telling me how stupid this episode is week after week, and that Stephen Moffat is The Worst Thing To Ever Happen To Television. I save that particualr fun for Monday mornings. [/QUOTE] Ah, my fellow Whovian, you (and any thread-shitters reading this) may find this of interest: [Steven Moffat | Tardis | Fandom](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Steven_Moffat). I found the section “Opinions of the Original Series” to be quite :D-inducing. As with anything on the intrawebz, YMMV. PS: It’s “Eccleston”, not “Eggleston”; (nor, “Ecclestone”, while I’m nit-picking). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/50 "2014-09-24T07:09:44Z")
> [@Sean\_Factotum](#): > > Like in the previous episode where the Doctor wanted to go back to Clara’s childhood on the night she first had the dream about something under the bed, and instead they showed up in Danny (Rupert) Pink’s childhood at the orphanage? Yeah, the TARDIS is completely 100% reliable now. But that’s explained in the episode. The TARDIS was reading Clara’s mind, and Clara was thinking of Danny Pink. But I always thought the “takes you where you need to go” thing was kinda weird. It’s a Time Machine. Why does this Doctor at this time need to go to that time and place? Why not some other Doctor from some other time? Why now? > [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Yes, this seems to be a particularly bad case of fanboy fatigue. … Me, I think most of the season so far has been pretty good, and I think it would’ve been a lot better received if nobody’d ever heard of Moffat before. It’s possible fanboy fatigue is an element, but it’s not that for me. I really didn’t know who he was until after he had started helming Doctor Who, and realized he had written a couple of the good episodes leading in. My opinion is based purely upon his run as helm and writer. I’m just tired of the big set ups he does that don’t pan out. They end up falling flat with holes. And it’s not just Doctor Who. I feel the same way about Sherlock. Season 2 of Sherlock left us with a huge, impossible cliffhanger with Sherlock jumping off a building to fake his own death. Season 3 started with Sherlock returning, and giving us several silly explanations before finally giving us the supposed real explanation. But the real explanation was too complex (the airbag where everybody in the neighborhood but Watson knew what was going on) and didn’t account for the original reason Sherlock had to be seen jumping off the building - Moriarty and his men were watching. In particular, Sherlock couldn’t have known Moriarty was going to blow his own brains out, so he had to expect that Moriarty would be there on the building to watch him jump. He _might_ have been able to stage manage a way to land in a garbage truck or something without Moriarty spotting, but no way Moriarty would miss a team of people carrying a giant airbag around the side of a building to keep it out of Watson’s view. That’s how I feel about lots of Moffat plots - great set ups, endings that suck. > [@wevets](#): > > That’s just it. The Doctor will have no problem **forcing** someone to express regret - he can always add it to his to-do list right after the heist is over. You misunderstand. I’m not saying anything to do with the Doctor, I’m saying as a storytelling device it is forced and nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/51 "2014-09-24T14:19:13Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Anyone notice James Marsters’s picture amongst the pics when the cyber guy was calling up all the terrible criminals to attract the Teller? That’s not any more interesting than the [Weevil](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Weevil) (another formerly Torchwood-only enemy) or the [two formerly](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Trickster) [SJA-only enemies](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Androvax), and significantly less interesting than the [comic enemy](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Abslom_Daak) in the list. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/52 "2014-09-24T17:34:30Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > You misunderstand. I’m not saying anything to do with the Doctor, I’m saying as a storytelling device it is forced and nonsensical. I follow you - I just want to see them dissect the trope by having the Doctor create the remorse from which the rest of the plot flows. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/53 "2014-09-24T18:39:22Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > And it’s not just Doctor Who. I feel the same way about Sherlock. Season 2 of Sherlock left us with a huge, impossible cliffhanger with Sherlock jumping off a building to fake his own death. Season 3 started with Sherlock returning, and giving us several silly explanations before finally giving us the supposed real explanation. I may be misremembering, but I thought even the “real” explanation turned out to be bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/54 "2014-09-24T19:19:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I may be misremembering, but I thought even the “real” explanation turned out to be bullshit. That’s the way I remembered it, too: it was a complete copout. I agree with all that Irishman said about the problems with the ‘Moriarty and/or his gang is watching’ situation. Moffat set up a ‘locked room’ mystery and then just hand-waved the solution (the fact that Holmes survived). ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/55 "2014-09-24T22:03:05Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I may be misremembering, but I thought even the “real” explanation turned out to be bullshit. [/QUOTE] Agreed. And, after loads of rewatching S02E03 and S03, and reading pages of comments on multiple boards, my opinion is that Moffat/Gatiss are withholding the real explanation from viewers. They’ll reveal/explain it when they wrap up the Sherlock series. Or when they need a ratings boost. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/56 "2014-09-25T03:04:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I may be misremembering, but I thought even the “real” explanation turned out to be bullshit. Not to hijack this thread, but they played that off in an ambiguous way. Sherlock told his “real” explanation to the conspiracy theorist (wasn’t that the CSI guy who was the first to believe Moriarty’s lies about Sherlock?) to publish. The conspiracy theorist then started scrutinizing and tearing it to shreds, and Sherlock walked out on him. One interpretation is that Sherlock was lying to him. Another interpretation is that Moffat was poking a stick in all the internet second-guessers who would continue to debate and analyze the explanation. Basically, “that’s the real answer, everything else is just contrarians who don’t like the answer”. I guess you can pick which version you think is true. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/57 "2014-09-25T15:17:27Z")
I’d love to go on about Sherlock, [but that can be found elsewhere](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16979216#post16979216). The logic of this episode is crap, but I at least enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/58 "2014-09-25T19:26:17Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > That’s not any more interesting than the [Weevil](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Weevil) (another formerly Torchwood-only enemy) or the [two formerly](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Trickster) [SJA-only enemies](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Androvax), and significantly less interesting than the [comic enemy](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Abslom_Daak) in the list. Well, yeah, it is more interesting, because it’s James “motherfucking Spike” Marsters. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/59 "2014-09-26T02:51:44Z")
Found a great pick-up line. Well, I guess it could be used for that, but I needed a lot of help today and when I walked into her office and saw her TARDIS scarf I asked, “So, how do you like Capaldi?” She was putty in my hands after that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030/60 "2014-09-26T04:57:26Z")
When The Doctor offered himself to the creature at the end, I thought he was trying to kill it with an enormous overload of guilt (given that The Doctor has had plenty of time to build up some guilt reserves over the course of his existence). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-september-20-2014-time-heist/699030.md?page=4)