# Doctor Who Series 10 ongoing discussion (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2017, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543 "2017-04-16T03:38:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/161 "2017-05-22T15:33:09Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Hey, now that I think about it, that part sounds like it was ripped off from the recent Hugo-winning novel Three Body Problem. The “everybody kills themselves” idea was silly then and it is silly now. Neat. Not them ripping off a story idea but of someone fleshing that idea out more. I’m going to check out the story you mentioned. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/162 "2017-05-22T15:56:09Z")
I don’t think I’d kill myself. I think I’d laugh, then decide that I could literally do anything I wanted to without any real consequences to the real me. Oh, not that I’d immediately turn into a raging sociopath. No, that still isn’t me, my moral center isn’t kept in check by fear of God or Consequences. No, I’d start testing the boundaries of reality and if I could touch that simulation code in any way. Hey, you just learned that you’re in the matrix. See if you can do anything with it. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/163 "2017-05-22T16:00:07Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Hey, now that I think about it, that part sounds like it was ripped off from the recent Hugo-winning novel Three Body Problem. The “everybody kills themselves” idea was silly then and it is silly now. Well, all of the _simulated beings_ kill themselves—could be just a kind of safeguard to ensure that the knowledge isn’t widely disseminated, so as not to influence the simulation’s outcome (too much). ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/164 "2017-05-22T16:40:36Z")
I think the point about the random numbers being the same was based on: - each AI has the identical routine of using the internal clock to generate a number - one AI bangs on the table to start the process and all AIs thus register the same time on their clocks ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/165 "2017-05-22T16:47:53Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Well, all of the _simulated beings_ kill themselves—could be just a kind of safeguard to ensure that the knowledge isn’t widely disseminated, so as not to influence the simulation’s outcome (too much). It seems like the aliens sort of had despair set as the default reaction–seriously, _everybody_ kills themselves?–but it seems like building in an undercurrent of despair would in itself contaminate the simulation. Who wants to bet that that “This gizmo will absolutely, positively kill a Time Lord, no regenerations, really, we swear” thingee will figure in some way into Capaldi’s departure from the series? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/166 "2017-05-22T19:02:57Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Well, all of the _simulated beings_ kill themselves—could be just a kind of safeguard to ensure that the knowledge isn’t widely disseminated, so as not to influence the simulation’s outcome (too much). I think the Doctor said something about a safeguard set up for stimulates who figure it out. Also once Bill got all upset at the end she just vanished without “killing” herself. > [@MrAtoz](#): > > Who wants to bet that that “This gizmo will absolutely, positively kill a Time Lord, no regenerations, really, we swear” thingee will figure in some way into Capaldi’s departure from the series? That would be cool. How do you think they’ll work? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/167 "2017-05-22T21:23:17Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Oh, not that I’d immediately turn into a raging sociopath. No, that still isn’t me, my moral center isn’t kept in check by fear of God or Consequences. I’d go the sociopath route — I don’t believe in morals, and am checked by God and consequences. Without either, the sky’s the limit. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/168 "2017-05-23T10:14:47Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > And I thought the scene with the Pope interrupting Bill’s date was hysterical. That was brilliant. You’re a gay woman feeling guilty and uncertain about being out on a date with another woman…and the freaking **Pope** shows up to interrupt it? That’s gotta leave a psychological scar. > [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I think the Doctor said something about a safeguard set up for stimulates who figure it out. Also once Bill got all upset at the end she just vanished without “killing” herself. I thought she got “deleted” by the alien behind her. No? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/169 "2017-05-23T14:29:58Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > It seems like the aliens sort of had despair set as the default reaction–seriously, _everybody_ kills themselves?–but it seems like building in an undercurrent of despair would in itself contaminate the simulation. I didn’t see it as despair so much as heroic self sacrifice. They were here, in the machine, being used to perfect the invasion of earth. They were essentially part of a weapon. By killing themselves, they lessened the weapon’s power, helping the survival of their real world. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/170 "2017-05-23T14:33:45Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I didn’t see it as despair so much as heroic self sacrifice. > > They were here, in the machine, being used to perfect the invasion of earth. They were essentially part of a weapon. > > By killing themselves, they lessened the weapon’s power, helping the survival of their real world. Good point. Also, if they figured out they _were_ nothing but a simulation and there was a “real” version of them still out there, then killing themselves wouldn’t even _really_ be killing themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/171 "2017-05-23T16:55:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I thought she got “deleted” by the alien behind her. No? Yes, you’re right. I forgot that little bit. > [@Infovore](#): > > Good point. Also, if they figured out they _were_ nothing but a simulation and there was a “real” version of them still out there, then killing themselves wouldn’t even _really_ be killing themselves. Yeah, there will be another you still out there. The “real” you. But you you, the fake you, the only you you know will still be gone. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/172 "2017-05-24T03:59:11Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I think the Doctor said something about a safeguard set up for stimulates who figure it out." Which there isn’t, really. See the Osgoods. Does she remember which one she is? If it furthers the plot, logic be damned! ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/173 "2017-05-24T14:23:49Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Which there isn’t, really. See the Osgoods. Does she remember which one she is? If it furthers the plot, logic be damned! I don’t recall the Osgoods showing up in this episode which had the computer simulation. I do remember all the episodes that they were in where they were not part of the simulation ---
**Author:** ![TwoCarrotSnowman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twocarrotsnowman/32/15879_2.png) [@TwoCarrotSnowman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoCarrotSnowman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/174 "2017-05-24T17:08:10Z")
How old is the simulation? It features a blind Doctor, so it was either created after the events of the last episode, or it is updating itself regularly based on events in the real world. Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/175 "2017-05-24T17:12:11Z")
> [@TwoCarrotSnowman](#): > > How old is the simulation? It features a blind Doctor, so it was either created after the events of the last episode, or it is updating itself regularly based on events in the real world. > > Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Hard to say, at first, I thought it had been going on for a while, generations, even, but with it being a part of an ongoing battle plan, I changed my perspective to it being a fairly recent development. ---
**Author:** ![TwoCarrotSnowman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twocarrotsnowman/32/15879_2.png) [@TwoCarrotSnowman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoCarrotSnowman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/176 "2017-05-24T22:16:45Z")
I found myself thinking about this (I have too much time on my hands). We don’t know that the Big Bads have simulated everyone and everything. We saw simulations of members of the Catholic Church and CERN - two influential and powerful organisations - and the Doctor and his companion (and her date). It’s entirely possible they’re only simulating potential groups of adversaries rather than the whole world, which is what I assumed when first viewing the episode. I also like the theory that suicide is a built-in response to discovery of the truth, for failsafe purposes. Lastly, it’s lucky the Big Bads built the appropriate interfaces into the solution so that the simulated Doctor could message his real self. Rich PS: Chrome’s autocorrect just tried to amend my final point to “…so that the simulated Doctor could **massage** his real self”. Adds a whole different vibe to the episode. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/177 "2017-05-25T02:21:29Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I don’t recall the Osgoods showing up in this episode which had the computer simulation. I do remember all the episodes that they were in where they were not part of the simulation Bro, we are all in one big simulation. Protect yourself by accepting the possibility that it’s true. Those who read the essay could not accept it and went mad. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/178 "2017-05-25T02:23:53Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Bro, we are all in one big simulation. Protect yourself by accepting the possibility that it’s true. Those who read the essay could not accept it and went mad. No, they read it, accepted it, were shocked and terrified that they were not actually real and decided to stop being a part of the simulation. Not madness. Existential terror. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/179 "2017-05-25T03:17:24Z")
That’s what happens when you use monks to do your dirty work. Far too prone to existential terror. 😉 Had a computer bud who was an Anglican monk. Took apart and repaired a hard drive in his cell. Closest he had to a clean room. His brother brothers were glad because it used to howl like a banshee, disturbing their meditations. As I mentioned earlier, antique Seagates ran with the pointed spindle/axle stuck in babbitt. Sometimes needs a drop of oil. They were built like Model T Fords, and Brother Jeremy was not prone to existential terror. Or terror of dust. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543/180 "2017-05-28T12:35:39Z")
Oh well, they could keep up the streak of a good season forever I guess. Last week the absurdity was offset by some good characters and the overall stylistics; this week it was just stupid shouting out its name all alone. Trying to play along with the Moffatness though … so why do they need “consent”? And how will Missy end up being the key to saving the planet (because we know she will)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-10-ongoing-discussion-open-spoilers/784543.md?page=10)