# Doctor Who Series 7 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 27, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859 "2012-08-27T21:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/301 "2012-10-01T16:36:28Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Well, if **Gyrate** writes his own idea, (as opposed to somebody authorized by the BBC,) then it’s fanfic by definition. Since he abhors fanfic, then he keeps it as a concept. That seems straightforward to me. Exactly so. Plus I can’t write dialogue very well. > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > surely Rory won’t have to go to war against the rather banal evil in WWII?) it depends on 1) how old Rory is and 2) what sort of documentation they manage to scrounge up back in the past. Plus, if anyone is battle-ready, it’s him. > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I may well have missed this, having watched the episode at the arse end of a rather vigorous weekend, but who is going to tell Brian that he can no longer see his son? And how is Brian going to react, having told them to go? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/302 "2012-10-01T18:20:20Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > _gulp_ surely Rory won’t have to go to war against the rather banal evil in WWII?) "I have to fight Hitler? No problem. Just punch him in the nose once and he’s hiding in a closet, trust me. " But it’s not like he’s going to get drafted, having no documentation except a birth certificate thirty years in the future. I don’t know what being an undocumented Englishman in NYC during WWII will be (uh, would have to-be-been) like (darn time travel tenses!). Though, you know, banal evil is still evil. In fact, I have this vague memory that someone remarked on the which side of the banal/non-banal divide most evil falls in our real world. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/303 "2012-10-01T18:41:04Z")
So the Doctor screams Amy’s name three times as she plunges off the skyscraper, and doesn’t yell for Rory once? (Yes, I know, but still.) Also, in my opinion the most hide-behind-the-sofa ever moment is now the cherub blowing out the match. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/304 "2012-10-01T18:44:34Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Though, you know, banal evil is still evil. In fact, I have this vague memory that someone remarked on the which side of the banal/non-banal divide most evil falls in our real world. Heh, yes. Perhaps Rory turned up at British recruiting office, dressed as a centurion. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/305 "2012-10-01T18:45:09Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Well, if **Gyrate** writes his own idea, (as opposed to somebody authorized by the BBC,) then it’s fanfic by definition. Since he abhors fanfic, then he keeps it as a concept. That seems straightforward to me. Actually, if **Gyrate** wrotes a prose narrative piece of the idea, it’s fanfic. If, however, he writes it as a teleplay, it’s a “spec script,” and can be a legitimate way to break into TV writing. The spec script itself won’t be produced, but it’s a way to develop a portfolio for a hopeful writer. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/306 "2012-10-01T21:25:56Z")
What’s interesting is that the tombstone with Rory’s name existed from the beginning. Before he supposedly got transported back in time at the Hotel Quay and stayed there the rest of his life, it existed. Which means there were two (or three) simultaneous timelines occurring. 1. Rory gets trapped in the Hotel Quay and must stay there the rest of his life or it creates a paradox. But at the same time… 2. Rory doesn’t stay in the Hotel Quay and gets zapped back in time to live the rest of his life. With the addendum of… 2a) Amy joins him. We can timey-wimey this away, I guess, but it’s unsatisfying. There has to be a reason for them both to be simultaneously possible or else we, the viewers, wouldn’t have been allowed to see the gravestone at the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/307 "2012-10-01T21:42:16Z")
> [@Hogfather65](#): > > FanFic? don’t understand the ref to fanfic - talking about the earty Dr Who - 5 doctors and the even earlier 3 Doctors. Never really liked Paul McGann - but a the 4 Doctors could work as well. The show’s tenth anniversary was celebrated with **The Three Doctors**. The show’s twentieth anniversary was celebrated with **The Five Doctors.** It wasn’t on the air for the thirtieth or fortieth. However, if the 50th anniversary next year isn’t celebrated with an episode called **The Eleven Doctors** with all eleven of his incarnations appearing in some way, shape or form I will be mightily disappointed. All but the first three are still alive and able to do vocal performances. Tom Baker is still recording audio dramas. With a combination of CG, lookalike casting, and careful use of looping there’s no reason that you couldn’t have an anniversary episode that brings all of them together for one giant adventure. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/308 "2012-10-01T22:08:33Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > However, if the 50th anniversary next year isn’t celebrated with an episode called **The Eleven Doctors** with all eleven of his incarnations appearing in some way, shape or form I will be mightily disappointed. My theory is they might do a series-arc with every episode encountering a single, different Doctor. It would be simple to operate, and would resolve the issue of having so many big names on screen simultaneously and finding something for them all to do. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/309 "2012-10-01T22:18:32Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I may well have missed this, having watched the episode at the arse end of a rather vigorous weekend, but who is going to tell Brian that he can no longer see his son? I wonder if Brian is still alive - it’s not quite clear how much time has gone between “Power of Three” and “Angels Take Manhattan” - but yeah, telling Brian would be rough… ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/310 "2012-10-01T23:00:24Z")
I have to laugh at the notion of it being “impossible” for the Doctor to ever see them again. Come on, you’re the Doctor, man. You do more impossible things before breakfast than most people do all day. Can’t go back to 1938 NYC? Go back to 1939 or later. Hell, wait until they’ve lived in the past a few years and pick them up in the mid 40’s. Or go back to the 20’s and just wait around until they show up. This should be mandatory Timelord Training 101 type stuff to figure out. Oh, there’s a tombstone? Yeah, well, Doc Brown had a tombstone too. Marty used that as motivation, not resignation. Hell, after you pick them up put a fake tombstone in the cemetery. Not like you actually dug up the grave and saw bodies there. Frankly, even though it was a pretty good episode, it was a really sloppy way to write them out, makes the Doctor look downright stupid that he can’t figure anything out to work around the whole “can’t go back there again, ever” garbage. Frankly, it would’ve been more satisfying as an ending if Rory and Amy had remained dead after making the paradox by jumping off the roof. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/311 "2012-10-01T23:03:17Z")
Meh. It was impossible (arguably way, waaaaaaay more impossible) ever to see Rose again, too. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/312 "2012-10-01T23:06:23Z")
I just assumed that when they decided to write a letter to the Doctor in the afterward to the novel they probably thought to write a letter to Brian as well. I’m sure there are a few ways they could use to arrange for the letter to get to him shortly after they left, like Doc Brown’s telegram to Marty in Back to the Future Part 2. Or maybe Brian was so willing to see them off with the Doctor because he had already opened the letter marked “DO NOT OPEN UNTIL . . .” and he knows that they end up having a good, happy and long life together. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/313 "2012-10-01T23:43:17Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Oh, there’s a tombstone? Yeah, well, Doc Brown had a tombstone too. Marty used that as motivation, not resignation. Hell, after you pick them up put a fake tombstone in the cemetery. Not like you actually dug up the grave and saw bodies there. Yeah, “Red Dwarf” had an episode that was all about evading what was apparently the inevitable future, by faking out the predictions ([Cassandra (Red Dwarf) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra_%28Red_Dwarf%29)) ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/314 "2012-10-02T02:52:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Besides the obvious answer of “It would be a massive deus ex machina and ruin the emotional impact of the story”, the episode itself had previously established that New York is so full of temporal distortions and fixed points that time travel is extremely dangerous there. The Doctor couldn’t even land the TARDIS in 1938 on the first go-around because of the disturbance, and the trick he used to pull it off nearly destroyed the entire world. Since time distortion is cumulative, it would follow that for him to try it again would be even _more_ dangerous than it was the first time, which was bad enough that it scuffed up the TARDIS’ paint job. > > Besides, the wife won’t let him. It seemed to me that only 1938 NY was nearly impossible to TARDIS into–after all, they seem to have gotten into modern-day NY without noticing any particular problems. I’m a bit curious about that Rolls Royce data plate as well. There was a deliberate choice to show it, so I expect it will turn up again somehow. Nice ep, even with the weaknesses everyone has been pointing out. Terribly irritating to have only had five episodes and to now have to wait for Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/315 "2012-10-02T03:18:54Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > It was a good end for the Ponds, I think, a long and happy life together. (Although Amy will be very noticeably taller than pretty much every other woman in 1938, and _gulp_ surely Rory won’t have to go to war against the rather banal evil in WWII?) They’ll be missed, the pair of them were really excellent companions. I hope the new lass fits in well, and I’m sure she will, but Matt, Karen and Arthur really seemed like a tight unit. Well, Karen Gillan is noticeably taller than most women here in 2012. She’s what, 5’10, 5’11? I had noticed that she was the same height as Arthur Darvill and Matt Smith, and I assumed that Matt and Arthur were short, as so many actors are. Then I learned that they’re all close to six feet. Whoa! ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/316 "2012-10-02T04:41:22Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Well, Karen Gillan is noticeably taller than most women here in 2012. She’s what, 5’10, 5’11? I had noticed that she was the same height as Arthur Darvill and Matt Smith, and I assumed that Matt and Arthur were short, as so many actors are. Then I learned that they’re all close to six feet. Whoa! Karen is nearly 6 feet tall, without heels. Yeah, I know :eek: Matt is a few inches taller than that though ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/317 "2012-10-02T05:03:50Z")
The terrible, multi-color “hunchback” design of the new Daleks was partly done to raise the hight of the Daleks so that their eyestalks would be at eye-level with Karen, just as the previous bronze design had placed the eyestalk at Billie Piper’s eye-level. I suspect the unfortunate hunchback hump was intended to balance the greater hight with increased girth, while maintaining the same size and shape for the dome. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/318 "2012-10-02T05:44:17Z")
The ending was clever. The Doctor had won again thanks to Rory’s plan. They are at the Tardis ready to fly off on the next adventure. Just like they’ve done hundreds of times. Then Blam!!! Rory is gone. Talk about a kick in the stomach. Took my breath away for a second. Then we lose Amy. > [@billfish678](#): > > One aspect I “liked”. Well, I didn’t like it because it brought a tear to my eye and reminded of how life can kinda suck. But this had some real life emotional punch to it. > > One moment everything is fine. Next moment Rory is gone and thats that (its a problem that cannot be fixed). Docter is rather upset and Amy is freaked out. A few moments later here goes Amy (though by choice). This freaks the doctor out. > > No long good byes. No we saw it coming. No they died being a hero. No it was for the best or stuff like that. The fates/universe/chance/bad things just fucked with your life and somebody dear to you is gone in a moment never to be seen or heard from again. Though they did cheat a little bit on that last one. > > While more unsettling obviously, I think it would have had a much greater emotional impact if we didn’t get the “letter from the past”. Just they are both gone and here are two names on the tombstone. > > Gone. They are just gone. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/319 "2012-10-02T08:09:50Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Then Blam!!! Rory is gone. > > Talk about a kick in the stomach. Took my breath away for a second. I can’t be the only person whose thought upon seeing that was “I am a leaf on the wind… watch how I soar.” ---
**Author:** ![Hogfather65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hogfather65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogfather65)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859/320 "2012-10-02T09:07:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I can’t be the only person whose thought upon seeing that was “I am a leaf on the wind… watch how I soar.” :D:D [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-7/632859.md?page=17)