# Doctor Who Series 9 discussion (spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754 "2015-09-19T11:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/241 "2015-10-06T17:19:53Z")
So I guess next episode the Doctor dies for real, huh? Good on Moffat for finally going through with that (yeah, I know the episode wasn’t written by him). And Clara in the beginning felt somehow off to me—a little too ‘I want an adventure!’-bouncy. I liked Capaldi’s Doctor well enough last season, but enjoy the added on excitability these past few episodes; I just hope he doesn’t end up overcompensating. Not much of a fan of the sonic sunglasses so far, though I applaud the decision to get rid of the screwdriver, it’s just too often been used as a deus ex machina. Maybe instead of one virtually all-purpose gizmo they could give him a couple of gizmos for specific situations, with well-defined uses he’s got to apply cleverly? Maybe something he doesn’t always carry, so that we’d get some moments of having to make do without the thingamabob? But all my crotchetyness aside, I thought that was a pretty damn good episode, and if this beginning is any indication at all for the rest of the season quality-wise, it seems we’re in for a treat. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/242 "2015-10-06T18:29:00Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > The idea that an older and bitterer Doctor than the one in Genesis of the Daleks > > abandoned Young Davros and thus contributed to his fear and hatred, which resulted in the creation of the Daleks > > was an interesting one, but falls apart under any examination: what was the Doctor doing on Skaro then anyway, that he should just happen across the one person whose destiny he could so critically shape? Did he not know where he was? Maybe not - it wouldn’t be the first time Sexy Thing took him someplace he didn’t expect to be. Heck, sometimes he just pulls the lever and lets her decide where to go. > [@](#): > > And when Davros first met the Fourth Doctor, why did he not recognise him as the Tardis piloting sonic screwdriver tossing Time Lord who had failed to save him? Well… except Four looks and sounds completely different than Twelve? > [@](#): > > The guy’s a genius, surely he should have twigged as soon as he learnt that the guy who he’d captured was a Time Lord. In “Genesis of the Daleks”, the first time the adult Davros meets the Doctor and the second time he meets him in Davros’s timeline, the Kaleds and Thals don’t know that there is intelligent life on other planets, in fact, they don’t that is even possible. They certainly don’t know about Time Lords or Gallifrey. The first time Davros meets the Doctor, in the hand mine field, the Doctor never says “by the way, I’m an alien”. All young Davros knows is that some strange weirdo rescued him. Later on, after “Genesis”, Davros knows about alien life and the Time Lords, but not until after that. > [@Penfeather](#): > > Why was Skaro even there, albeit painted invisible? The 6th Doctor gamed Davros into blowing it up at the end of _Remembrance of the Daleks_\*? Did he put it back? There’s a throwawy line that the Daleks re-created it. > [@grude](#): > > Why would genocide even apply to the daleks? > > They are an engineered species of killer cyborgs, as the episode last season showed us they literally have no free will when their shell is functioning as it constantly uses electronic mind control and drugs to make them murderous. They have been genetically engineered to be impossible to survive without the shell, they can’t reproduce, they don’t have parents or kids or families or even friends. They have no free thought or will, all controlled by the shell. They are basically mind controlled by the shell. > > Saying that destroying a bunch of dalek embryos before they have even been gestated is genocide, well then John Conner blowing up a factory making Terminators is also genocide. The term loses all meaning. In-cor-rect. The Daleks are a living species, even if heavily cyborged. They do produce new daleks, although we don’t know the details (I’m not sure I’d want to, frankly). The Sontarrans are a one-gender race reproducing solely by cloning these days, for all we know that’s true of Daleks, too. Or maybe they have 14 sexes and at least three different ones are required for new Daleks to be made. We know nothing of Dalek reproduction. And the indeed-they-are-revolting sewers would seem to indicate that they CAN survive without the shell, they’re just in a very sorry state without it. > [@](#): > > Doctor#4 fucked up. I’ve thought so since I first watched “Genesis of the Daleks” in the 1980’s, but what do I know? > [@Corner\_Case](#): > > Yeah, Clara, Missy, not dead, big surprise. Vortex Manipulators on their wrists, probably. Confirmed in beginning of 2nd episode, which also explains Missy surviving the end of Season 8. > [@](#): > > Many things are hard to reconcile: > There was the old episode “The Chase” showing the Daleks with time travel, so why did Missy think they needed her to show the Daleks time travel? Between TARDISs and vortex manipulators, it’s clear the Whoniverse has multiple forms of time travel. The TARDIS also has other sorts of Time Lord tech on board. It wasn’t so much “let me show you time travel” as “let me show you what this machine can do you don’t know about.” > [@](#): > > Clara and Missy used Vortex Manipulators to travel to 1138. How did Colony Sarff get to 1138? Seems the Daleks have enough time travel abilities. Again - there is more than one way to travel in time. > [@](#): > > He can’t have mistaken Tom Baker, unless he was pretending. Only if the Doctor is now going to change his personal timeline (which has always been a no no). Unless the GotD Davros, who didn’t know about alien life and had lived his whole life with random bits of different tech showing up due to the thousand year (or more) war, didn’t connect “alien guy named the Doctor” and “gadget tossed to me by a crotchety old guy, who looked completely different, in a hand mine field when I was kid” until long afterward. > [@Miller](#): > > Presumably, at some point since his last regeneration, Davros’s spies found out what the Doctor looks like now, and Davros made the connection between the Doctor’s new face, and the angry Scot with a gun from his childhood, prompting the drama in this episode. This seems reasonable to me. > [@](#): > > 1. The Doctor would only send one of those things to a fellow Time Lord. The last three times we saw the Master in the new show, it was a shock to the Doctor that he was still alive. All the other times his life was in danger, he thought he was the last of his kind, and had no one to send it to. This time, though, he already knew Missy was alive, and had some idea how to contact her. > > 2. In all the other instances of certain death, the Doctor had some plan, or at least hope of a plan, that would allow him to survive the circumstances. In this story, in his guilt over abandoning an innocent child, he’s accepted that he deserves whatever Davros is going to do to him, and is fully willing to accept it, and his death. So he sends Missy the compact to settle matters between them. > > 3. The Doctor _does_ have a plan, and the plan requires Missy in some way, and he knew the only way he could get her attention (and simultaneously prove that it came from him) was by something as dramatic as sending her his Last Will and Make-Up Mirror. > > None of these explanations are likely to survive viewing the second part of this story. 😃 I think send the Confession Dial out was to convince _other people_ he was going to die. Particularly Missy (who for consistency, should be called “The Missy” as counterpart to “The Master” but whatever). In Missy’s warped mind only SHE is allowed to kill the Doctor and if someone else threatens her life she’ll come to save him. The Doctor is going up against the Daleks, and against Davros, and while he can’t take an army he certainly wants backup. Who better than another Time Lord? In that context, enlisting the Master/Missy as ally makes sense, sort of like the enemies the US and USSR teaming up against Hitler in WWII. But what’s going to get Missy on his side? Only a threat to his life. So… he sends out a Confession Dial, telegraphing that “my life is in danger and I don’t expect to survive - I really mean it this time!”. Missy “falls” for it and comes along/rides to the rescue. > [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > I’m sort of wondering why Snake Guy is working for Davros… or, for that matter, why Davros is employing Snake Guy. This may be the only time we’ve ever seen Davros work with ANYONE other than Daleks, since the Kaleds got wiped out… How do you know Colony Sarff isn’t a life form native to Skaro? Or engineered from a Skarian life form? > [@simster](#): > > Wasn’t Clara in a dalek suit when we first meet her a few seasons ago? Is this that Clara? No. > [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > Part of me thinks we may be using the Daleks too much, part of me thinks it’s nice to see Dalek psychology and physiology fleshed out. ^ This. It makes the less a one-note prop. > [@](#): > > Dalek sewers are indeed revolting. QFT > [@](#): > > This is the first interpretation of the Master who seems to be rather unfocused. She’s just doin’ it For The Evulz, as opposed to having some sort of master plan, if you’ll pardon the pun. She’s a potential immortal (fuck it, she IS immortal - like Captain Jack, even if you kill her she comes back) in a universe where her own kind are largely absent. She’s _bored_. What the heck does she have to do with her time but find ways to amuse herself? > [@](#): > > Why’d the Doctor send out the disc in the first place? He seemed to think he was gonna die. Hell, he’s almost died every time he’s tangled with the Daleks. Why now send out the disc? To get Missy’s attention and get her to come along somehow. For all we know, that Confession Dial is blank, or has a note saying “ha-ha! Fooled you!” or a recipe for Gallifreyan warble cookies on it. > [@](#): > > In “Revelation of the Daleks,” the Doctor tricks Davros into blowing up Skaro. In this episode, Davros handwaves the whole thing with, “Oh, the Daleks put it back together.” Hah? Less a handwave than the complete lack of explanation of how go from Simm’s Master being exiled in the time lock with the rest of the Time Lords to Missy’s existence, or Missy’s “I’m back, big surprise” and likewise no explanation. The Daleks have tech far, far in advance of our own. Maybe reconstructing a planet isn’t that huge a deal to them. Or Skaro-forming another to look just like their old home planet. > [@](#): > > Dalek sewers are indeed revolting. Again, QFT. > [@Nobody](#): > > In classic Who the screwdriver was destroyed during Peter Davison’s time as the doctor, and it wasn’t brought back until the 2005 reboot of the show. Hopefully this time the screwdriver won’t be gone too long. The screwdriver was also destroyed in “Smith and Jones” to defeat one of the Slabs, but it was back by the end of the episode. Screwdrivers come and go > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > They are only there to be ditched in some way that amuses middle-aged, long-term, Scottish Who fans and seeing as that is my demographic, I’m looking forward to River shooting them. I second the motion to have River shoot them. > [@Nonsuch](#): > > I agree that the show has changed enough that era-to-era comparisons aren’t always meaningful, and that the old show can look hokey compared to the show of today. But I reject the idea that the producers of the classic series somehow didn’t understand television the way today’s post-Whedon producers do. They were not transplants from the world of theater; they understood their medium just fine. The culture has shifted and audiences demand a different approach to fantasy stories than the more broad, on-the-nose style of the 70s. If you want to see stagey and theatrical _Doctor Who_ watch a copy of “The Aztecs”, which very much does look like a filmed stage production. The pacing of the Old Who serials was different than modern shows, but the Baker years are in many ways much closer to modern TV than the Hartnell years. > [@](#): > > _Traken_ is kind of a snooze though. The best part of “Traken” is the bit at the very end where the Master finally gets a new body. > [@Miller](#): > > Also, it bugged me that all Clara had to do was think, “Open,” to get out of the Dalek. If that’s all it took, how did it not pop open the instant she met the Doctor and he couldn’t tell it was her? Wouldn’t “Open up, you stupid thing!” basically be playing on a constant loop in her head at that point? OK, folks, let’s think a little deeper on this one. A Dalek’s squishy bits are extremely vulnerable. If you’re a Dalek you don’t want them exposed accidentally. You don’t want the armor bits popping open anytime someone hears or says the word “out” or “open”, otherwise you’ll have an entire race of people like that guy at the end of “The Long Game” whose forehead pops open every time someone snaps their fingers around him. So, as a safety measure, perhaps it takes a very, very deliberate command to open to shell, as opposed to a paniced OutOutOutOut!!! sort of thought. > [@DSeid](#): > > Look no farther than the title … A Doctor may need a Companion (or pet) but a Witch like Missy needs a familiar. This about this a bit differently. The Magician (Doctor) wants an Apprentice (Companion) - someone he regards as a fellow intelligent being that he is interested in teaching and watching grow into another magician. The Doctor picks companions that are intelligent, brace, and courious and encourages them to be more. The Witch (Master/Missy) wants a Familiar (Pet) - because she does NOT seem Humans as her equal, more like a relatively intelligent but still lower animal. She wants an audience, test subject for experiments, and possible lunch She explicitly tell Clara that she regards Humans much as Humans regard dogs. Most people would not give their life to save a dog, and a lot of them might be downright callous about killing dogs. But the Doctor not only puts himself at risk to save Humans that are in danger, he HAS given up a life for a Human on occasion (an example being Wilfred Mott, which is why Ten wound up regenerating into Eleven). The Doctor sees Human beings as _people_, the Master does not. > [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > Set you even odds we never find out. Missy’ll just pop up again with no explanation whatsoever. And maybe even lampshade it with “I escaped due to a very clever idea I had, that’s how.” She DID say at the end “I just got a clever idea!” when surrounded by Daleks. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/243 "2015-10-06T18:48:17Z")
“It was my fault, I should have known you didn’t live in Aberdeen” _sob_ ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/244 "2015-10-06T20:08:26Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > But all my crotchetyness aside, I thought that was a pretty damn good episode, and if this beginning is any indication at all for the rest of the season quality-wise, it seems we’re in for a treat. Although it wouldn’t be a Doctor Who thread if I didn’t question the wisdom of having a profoundly deaf crew member on an underwater oil rig with only one other person able to sign. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/245 "2015-10-08T19:44:56Z")
I like the sunglasses. It fits this Doctor well. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/246 "2015-10-09T00:06:56Z")
> [@broomstick](#): > > in-cor-rect. > > The daleks are a living species, even if heavily cyborged. They do produce new daleks, although we don’t know the details (i’m not sure i’d want to, frankly). The sontarrans are a one-gender race reproducing solely by cloning these days, for all we know that’s true of daleks, too. Or maybe they have 14 sexes and at least three different ones are required for new daleks to be made. We know nothing of dalek reproduction. “In-semin-ate! In-semin-ate! In-semin-ate!” ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/247 "2015-10-11T00:11:04Z")
That was cool. Having the Doctor play guitar to start the theme song. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/248 "2015-10-11T00:43:20Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > “In-semin-ate! In-semin-ate! In-semin-ate!” [You WERE aware there was such a thing as Dalek Porn, right?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHpWRHxpZM) ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/249 "2015-10-11T02:02:34Z")
I didn’t like this episode. I thought the ending was a bit cop-out-y ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/250 "2015-10-11T02:14:13Z")
OK, but forgettable. Not a two-parter I will look back on too fondly. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/251 "2015-10-11T02:49:39Z")
Agreed disappointing. I take it as Moffat doing a thumb in the eye to those who dared criticize timey-whiminess. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/252 "2015-10-11T07:37:24Z")
Hmm. Muddled, and still felt rushed for what was almost two hours, it never felt like it earnt its resolution, and Clara’s BUT WHAT ABOUT ME? bit was awful. A long run for a short slide, essentially, and the sonic sunglasses look stupid; let’s hope for more from Viking cyborgs. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/253 "2015-10-11T12:29:33Z")
I’m against doing two-parters for most of the season. This last one could have been re-written as a one-off episode and been a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/254 "2015-10-11T12:39:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > That was cool. Having the Doctor play guitar to start the theme song. I like the way it segued into the theme song. > [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > [You WERE aware there was such a thing as Dalek Porn, right?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHpWRHxpZM) \*\*AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! \*\* _will not click on that link will not click on that link will not click on that link will not click on that link will not click on that link will not click on that link will not click on that link will not click on that link …_ I don’t mind the two-part format. Heck, I remember the days when virtually everything in the show was 4-parts, had even more padding back then, most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/255 "2015-10-11T14:59:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t mind the two-part format. Heck, I remember the days when virtually everything in the show was 4-parts, had even more padding back then, most of the time. I remember the 4-parts as well. This new-who fixed that over-padding problem. Hate to see it return, even if it is far less. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/256 "2015-10-11T20:06:55Z")
Come to think of it, there was a lot of pointless rushing back and forth down the same stretch of corridor. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/257 "2015-10-11T22:44:14Z")
Not sure why the deaf lady bent down to feel the floor for vibrations. It would have been a lot faster to just look behind her. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/258 "2015-10-11T23:22:37Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Not sure why the deaf lady bent down to feel the floor for vibrations. It would have been a lot faster to just look behind her. To let us know that she knew to look because of the vibrations. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/259 "2015-10-12T01:34:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > To let us know that she knew to look because of the vibrations. which she already would have felt thru her feet - otherwise - It’s like a para dox or something. Have we seen this particular alien before? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/260 "2015-10-12T01:46:14Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Have we seen this particular alien before? I don’t think so. But if it was already dead when the Doctor encountered it, then did the Doctor encounter its ghost? The alien was completely solid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=14)