# Doctor Who Series 9 discussion (spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754 "2015-09-19T11:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/381 "2015-11-08T22:00:41Z")
I’m sure this has been mentioned, but I don’t want to read eight pages to find it. I don’t like the sonic sunglasses. They make The Doctor look too much like an aging hipster. Next thing you know, he’ll be going around playing an electric guitar. Oh, wait… Ditch the glasses. The Doctor needs his screwdriver. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/382 "2015-11-08T22:07:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I don’t like the sonic sunglasses. They make The Doctor look too much like an aging hipster. Yep. And the writers’ attempt to inoculate themselves from criticism–by being the ones to point out that “sonic” doesn’t really fit with “visual” (i.e. glasses)–failed abysmally. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/383 "2015-11-08T22:44:21Z")
I do not like this season. Not at all. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/384 "2015-11-08T22:56:10Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I do not like this season. Not at all. And you’re entitled to your opinion, however wrong it is. 😉 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/385 "2015-11-08T23:52:05Z")
I don’t think anyone mentioned it yet, and I’m referring to last week’s episode anyway, but… Those tumbleweeds? In the town of Truth or Consequences? Very witty. First shot we saw one blowing along, okay, yes I get it we’re in the American wastelands but a bit cliche don’t you think… then the very next shot has another one blowing along and I think oh COME ON and then another shot with TWO of them blowing along and suddenly… I realise what’s going on. Nicely done. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/386 "2015-11-09T01:46:20Z")
> [@MacSpon](#): > > Of course, since we still don’t know whether the murdered Osgood was a Zygon or Human, now we don’t know whether we have a Human and a Zygon Osgood, or two Zygon Osgoods. > The question is…does it matter? I 100% believe that the one Osgood is human. And I’m guessing it probably doesn’t matter, but then having the Doctor and Kate constantly trying to find out only to never get an answer is kind of a dick move on the part of Moffat and/or the writers. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/387 "2015-11-09T01:49:11Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Stupid question. Were the buttons in the boxes really labeled Truth or Consequence, or since the room had mind altering equipment were they just imagining that? And reading [here](http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Osgood_Box) gives me the answer to the question. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/388 "2015-11-09T01:52:23Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > First shot we saw one blowing along, okay, yes I get it we’re in the American wastelands but a bit cliche don’t you think… Considering where I used to live… Nope. Pretty normal. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/389 "2015-11-09T02:28:30Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > But then there would be _three_ Osgoods: the two originals (one human, one Zygon) and then the additional Zygon (“Bonnie”). Or else when one Osgood dies another takes her place… sort of like how when the Doctor “dies” he regenerates and another man takes his place… We never learned the details of the original peace treaty - it could be there are _several_ individuals on each side who have agreed to become an Osgood when an Osgood is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/390 "2015-11-09T02:37:25Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > First shot we saw one blowing along, okay, yes I get it we’re in the American wastelands but a bit cliche don’t you think… then the very next shot has another one blowing along and I think oh COME ON and then another shot with TWO of them blowing along and suddenly… I realise what’s going on. Nicely done. Er… I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. That is pretty much what tumbleweeds do, roll along either singly or in clumps, and in arid environments they grow like… well, like _weeds_. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/391 "2015-11-09T02:55:36Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Considering where I used to live… Nope. Pretty normal. Tumbleweeds are so iconic Old West that I was surprised to learn that the Russian Thistle was only introduced to the US in the 1870s. They do get around–one rolled down my street a few years back. Is it me or are the people playing companions this time around MUCH better actors than in Old Who? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/392 "2015-11-09T03:31:02Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Is it me or are the people playing companions this time around MUCH better actors than in Old Who? I don’t know about MUCH, but thinking about it yes they are better. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/393 "2015-11-09T03:32:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Er… I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. > > That is pretty much what tumbleweeds do, roll along either singly or in clumps, and in arid environments they grow like… well, like _weeds_. Think about what people look like after the Zygons kill them. Those are not tumbleweeds… ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/394 "2015-11-09T03:56:51Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I don’t like this season’s decision to make every story a two-parter, though. There just hasn’t been enough story material to support it, and it’s meant a weak and flabby set-up followed by a much stronger finish. It’s like the old days where each story was a multi-parter, and the actual story was padded out by a lot of running back and forth. A bigger budget now means the earlier episode is now padded out by stuff - a lot of flying back and forth, in this case, with a silly cliff-hanger tacked on: did anyone really think Zygella had shot down the Doctor’s plane? why does the Doctor need a plane anyway? - but the story-telling suffers. The story would have been far better told in a single location with a smaller cast: all we really needed was the stand-off between Kate and Zygella over the boxes, with the Doctor giving his impassioned speech. Everything that didn’t get us there - UNIT being stupid, the New Mexico stuff - was extraneous and distracting. I disagree, but I think the decision to make this story a two parter may have played better for an English audience than an American one. It was deliberately made _very_ obvious that the Zygon splinter group was intended to be a direct parallel for ISIS. Hell, even the Zygon [flag](http://them0vieblog.com/2015/10/31/doctor-who-the-zygon-invasion-review/) (scroll down about half way) was deliberately designed to look like the ISIS flag. In Britain, where [nearly twice as many British Muslims have joined ISIS than have joined the British army](http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/defence/article4183684.ece) issues like radicalisation, of not knowing who to trust, and of militants using violence to poison the image of an entire group, are all tremendously relevant. One in 20 Britons are Muslim, compared to only about 1 in 500 Americans. Needless to say, Britain has had significantly larger problems with integration, ghettoisation, and homegrown radicalisation than America. This story wasn’t just meant to be a fun sci-fi story. It was also an attempt to explain serious contemporary social issues to a young audience in a way that was both hopeful and honest. In that, I think it succeeded _brilliantly_, and there was absolutely no possible way they could have done all that in just 45 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/395 "2015-11-09T10:35:12Z")
A staggering difference in quality between the two halves of this story - the limp setup paid off in a much more interesting and intense conclusion. Some thoughts: - It was strangely refreshing to see a few normal solutions to perilous situations. Kate defeats the menacing alien not by confusing it with paradoxes or zapping it with a magic raygun but by simply shooting it with bullets. The Doctor and Osgood escape from the plane not by recalling the TARDIS using a Time Lord dogwhistle or using a wrist teleporter engineered from the plane’s navigation system, an old boot and some leftover sausage but by jumping out of it wearing parachutes. Sometimes the ordinary ways are better. - I wasn’t sure which incident the Doctor was referring to when he said Clara stopped him from pressing a similar button. Wasn’t it a simulated Rose that made him stop and think before destroying Gallifrey? I must have forgotten something. - The convoluted Prisoner’s Dilemma at the end worked for me - each box (according solely to the Doctor) had a “one button you win but lots of others die, one button you lose and die yourself” choice - a clever formulation with a WOPR-style resolution. Despite the heavy talkiness of it, I thought it was one of the better endings. - Love the Osgoods. The show is awfully good at coming up with strong female characters, some of which I wish we would see again (e.g. Lady Christina, “Jenny”). > [@Quartz](#): > > Did you spot Ashildr’s alien helmet behind the table in a glass cabinet? Ah! I saw that and was trying to remember what it was. Thank you! > [@galen\_ubal](#): > > Think about what people look like after the Zygons kill them. Those are not tumbleweeds… I kept thinking of the Donald Sutherland _Bodysnatchers_ film where we see garbagemen carting away similar-looking detritus that was the remnants of duplicated humans (minus the electrical discharges, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/396 "2015-11-09T10:46:21Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > I disagree, but I think the decision to make this story a two parter may have played better for an English audience than an American one. It was deliberately made _very_ obvious that the Zygon splinter group was intended to be a direct parallel for ISIS. Hell, even the Zygon [flag](http://them0vieblog.com/2015/10/31/doctor-who-the-zygon-invasion-review/) (scroll down about half way) was deliberately designed to look like the ISIS flag. > > In Britain, where [nearly twice as many British Muslims have joined ISIS than have joined the British army](http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/defence/article4183684.ece) issues like radicalisation, of not knowing who to trust, and of militants using violence to poison the image of an entire group, are all tremendously relevant. One in 20 Britons are Muslim, compared to only about 1 in 500 Americans. Needless to say, Britain has had significantly larger problems with integration, ghettoisation, and homegrown radicalisation than America. And of course it also covered the issue of the non-radicalised - the millions of ordinary Zygons/Muslims who just want to be left alone to live their lives without harassment by either their radicalised brethren or the government reacting to the radicals. I forgot to comment on the other Osgood point - whether she was human or Zygon. I can understand why she never answered the question; in a way, she herself is an Osgood box, where ignorance of her true nature is key. What I wasn’t sure of was why the Doctor kept asking. It would have mattered if he thought she might be affected by some Zygon inversion gas, but since he knew (and he knew that she knew) that the boxes didn’t do that, and since he must have known where her loyalty lay by that point, why did he “need to know”? Or did he think she was a (different) Zygon duplicate of the surviving Osgood? ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/397 "2015-11-09T11:41:43Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Is it me or are the people playing companions this time around MUCH better actors than in Old Who? A good part of that is the writers are writing them as real people with real personalities, as opposed to plot devices and question askers. Classic Who’s view of companions as “stuffing” was never more apparent to me than in _Logopolis_. Tegan transitioned from confused and a little frightened to full fledged prop in less than three scenes. eta Sarah Jane was a notable exception, however. But she didn’t bloom until Four came along. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/398 "2015-11-09T11:59:04Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > A good part of that is the writers are writing them as real people with real personalities, as opposed to plot devices and question askers. > > Classic Who’s view of companions as “stuffing” was never more apparent to me than in _Logopolis_. Tegan transitioned from confused and a little frightened to full fledged prop in less than three scenes. > > eta Sarah Jane was a notable exception, however. But she didn’t bloom until Four came along. Heh - I’m reminded of Mitch Benn’s song “[Doctor Who Girl](http://hoydenabouttown.com/2010/11/03/whoydensday-mitch-benns-doctor-who-girl/)”: > [@](#): > > Be my Doctor Who girl, > We’ll make a real good team, > I’ll do all the thinking, > You’ll look good in shorts and scream. > Give me someone to rescue, > Get changed and give us all a twirl, > Keep quiet and never argue, > Be my Doctor Who girl. > > Be my Doctor Who girl, > Follow me a lot, > Ask me heaps of questions > So I can explain the plot. > Say you’ll stand beside me, > Say you’ll help me save the world, > Fall and twist your ankle, > Be my Doctor Who girl. None of the NuWho companions would put up with that crap (which is of course part of the joke of the song), and indeed they’ve been spending more time saving the Doctor and the day themselves (most notably Donna and Clara) than any of the original companions. (Incidentally, Benn reports that Elisabeth Sladen’s daughter said her mother was a fan of the song and used to dance around the kitchen to it). ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/399 "2015-11-09T12:35:27Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > But then there would be _three_ Osgoods: the two originals (one human, one Zygon) and then the additional Zygon (“Bonnie”). When did Bonnie decide to become an Osgood? I must have missed that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/400 "2015-11-09T12:46:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > When did Bonnie decide to become an Osgood? I must have missed that. At the very end - the Doctor is talking to Osgood and then a second Osgood turns up, who is revealed to have been the erstwhile Bonnie/Zygella. The two Osgoods go off together with their respective inhalers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=21)