# Doctor Who Series 9 discussion (spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754 "2015-09-19T11:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/421 "2015-11-12T21:54:46Z")
Can’t we just let Zygons be Zygons? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/422 "2015-11-12T22:13:53Z")
I keep wanting to call them Zygotes. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/423 "2015-11-12T22:48:45Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Can’t we just let Zygons be Zygons? Not only are you the 10,000th person to say this joke across the internet, but I genuinely think it’s what the episode was inspired by. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/424 "2015-11-13T01:26:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I forgot; are you in the UK? I’m British but have lived outside of the country since 1999. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/425 "2015-11-13T18:48:59Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > So was I just not paying attention, or was that episode terribly confusing? How many small towns with zygonized population were there exactly? There was Truth or Consequences, which the brigadier’s daughter for some reason went to all by herself, and then that city the UNIT people first tried to bomb, then hilariously ineffectually invaded. Were those actuall the same? Also, was that supposed to be somewhere in some fictual -stan country? Having just watched it - the drone strike and the UNIT team that idiotically failed at soldiering, was the fictional Turmezistan. Kate was alone in Truth or Consequences. Not sure how she got back to London as fake-Zygon. ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/426 "2015-11-14T03:09:02Z")
Doctor Who Christmas special is coming to the big screen. Apparently, it’s a two-night event, Dec. 28 and 29. This character River Song (Alex Kingston) is in it. The Fathom Events website has the info, including a summary (which I disregarded) and the theaters that it will be in. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/427 "2015-11-14T04:31:07Z")
Liked the chaotic into to 905, I’d like to see more of that in Who. Thought the followup was weak, and it would have been more effective to wait a year or two to follow up on the immortal girl character. Hate the Zygon two parter, not that interesting and the two parter format is hurting the show overall I feel. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/428 "2015-11-14T04:35:36Z")
> [@Personal](#): > > Doctor Who Christmas special is coming to the big screen. Apparently, it’s a two-night event, Dec. 28 and 29. This character > > River Song (Alex Kingston) > > is in it. > > The Fathom Events website has the info, including a summary (which I disregarded) and the theaters that it will be in. What?! It’s not on Christmas Day? Da Fuck? That’s it. Christmas is cancelled! ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/429 "2015-11-14T05:40:47Z")
> [@Personal](#): > > Doctor Who Christmas special is coming to the big screen. Apparently, it’s a two-night event, Dec. 28 and 29. This character > > River Song (Alex Kingston) > > is in it. > > The Fathom Events website has the info, including a summary (which I disregarded) and the theaters that it will be in. Let’s hope it’s two hours of Capaldi being searingly rude to her before Missy kills her inventively. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/430 "2015-11-14T05:52:39Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Missy kills her inventively. Oh, Missy. You’re so _inventive_ in your killings! _ACK_ ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/431 "2015-11-14T09:48:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Oh, Missy. You’re so _inventive_ in your killings! _ACK_ :: Missy pirouettes coquettishly and makes a _moue_ :: ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/432 "2015-11-14T11:39:05Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > What?! It’s not on Christmas Day? Da Fuck? > > That’s it. Christmas is cancelled! It will be on TV on the 25th - but they want to make money from it, so they’re _also_ showing it on the big screen in select cities ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/433 "2015-11-14T11:41:49Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Let’s hope it’s two hours of Capaldi being searingly rude to her before Missy kills her inventively. She’s already dead. She died in _The Forest of the Dead_, her second episode (in our timeline). Missy _can’t_ kill her on Christmas. Fixed point and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/434 "2015-11-14T11:44:02Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > She’s already dead. She died in _The Forest of the Dead_, her second episode (in our timeline). Missy _can’t_ kill her on Christmas. Fixed point and all that. She showed up as a time… ghost… thing in Name of the Doctor though, and it appeared to be post-Library. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/435 "2015-11-14T12:24:24Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > She showed up as a time… ghost… thing in Name of the Doctor though, and it appeared to be post-Library. Right. and you can’t kill a time… ghost… thing ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/436 "2015-11-14T12:33:20Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > Right. and you can’t kill a time… ghost… thing Maybe **you** can’t, but Missy is creative! ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/437 "2015-11-14T20:16:01Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Maybe **you** can’t, but Missy is creative! Missy has a sharpened stick and a can-do attitude. I will forgive Moffat anything if he lets Missy take down River Song. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/438 "2015-11-14T20:55:14Z")
Well considering we already know how she ends, not too likely at least that Missy does it, not without lots of folks complaining about plot line inconsistencies. We know River is gone when we see her given the screwdriver. (Which of course is another bootstrap paradox.) Unless of course Missy somehow gets her out of the after death virtual reality and into a living form just so she can kill her. Given Missy’s entry with the Nethersphere and uploading minds into physical forms (albeit Cybermen ones) not without some hints of its being possible. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/439 "2015-11-14T21:17:25Z")
I wouldn’t attach too much to River’s consciousness being stuck in the Library computer now; _anyone_ can be brought back. Not dead, back, big surprise, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/440 "2015-11-14T21:39:36Z")
Yeah I know that mantra but really no one who was not dead was a big surprise to be not dead. Darvros, the Master/Missy? Never really dead, never will be, we know that. Yeah you can make fun of the traditional song and dance about how not and get on with the story you want to tell. River Song’s circumstance though actually does require a plot mechanism. Either her appearance here is before she physically died and was uploaded (possibly just immediately before, with a meaningful to the Doctor goodbye that River does not understand) or it needs a Whoniverse consistent explanation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=23)