# Doctor Who Series 9 discussion (spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754 "2015-09-19T11:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/41 "2015-09-20T21:00:44Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Why was Skaro even there, albeit painted invisible? The 6th Doctor gamed Davros into blowing it up at the end of _Remembrance of the Daleks_\*? Did he put it back? > > \*an awesome story, and Sylvester McCoy at his finest. I thought I heard Missy say something about Skaro being brought back. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/42 "2015-09-20T21:08:12Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > It was OK, the first 20 minutes could have been dispensed with, and as always with Moffat you’re left with the feeling that the same story could have been told much more simply without the noise and clutter: what was the point of snake-dude other than to do Sith impressions? And the tank and guitar stuff? Sorry, that’s bad fan-fiction. I agree. Unless they come back to Missy’s time-stop technology and part two, then the whole frozen-planes thing was nothing but filler. And yeah, the Doctor rocking a guitar was nearly unforgivable. It’s been an unfortunate tendency of post-revival Who for the Doctor to repeatedly get off on his own awesomeness, and it’s the kind of thing that brings out the worst in Moffat. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/43 "2015-09-20T21:24:33Z")
It was made clear last year that she teleported instead of died, right? Did they directly mention that fact in this episode? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/44 "2015-09-20T21:44:11Z")
She showed Clara her wrist-tardis. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/45 "2015-09-20T21:56:28Z")
Snake Guy was there to infect Bors with nanobots so that Davros could obtain the TARDIS. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/46 "2015-09-20T22:15:26Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > Snake Guy was there to infect Bors with nanobots so that Davros could obtain the TARDIS. Yeah, but other people have obtained the Tardis by dint of putting it on the back of a truck and driving off. Snakedude and Axey don’t add anything to the story but Moffatt’s love of jamming in more STUFF, and the result is noise and confusion and people asking each other Wait, what was that guy doing?, I missed that bit. The hallmark of his scripts are people having to ask each other the mechanics of what at bottom not be a complex bit of storytelling. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/47 "2015-09-20T22:46:45Z")
eta _should_ not be a complex bit of storytelling ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/48 "2015-09-20T23:02:26Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > It was made clear last year that she teleported instead of died, right? Did they directly mention that fact in this episode? No it wasn’t but i don’t see why they would need too. In the episode she died plenty of people got disintegrated and she teleported multiple times, they looked different. When she supposedly died the effect was that of the teleport. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/49 "2015-09-20T23:12:44Z")
I just realized something. Why did the Daleks procure the TARDIS and then destroy it? Why not just destroy it? Did they wait so that the Doctor could see it being destroyed? If so does that mean that Davros once again gained control of his creations? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/50 "2015-09-20T23:45:42Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Snakedude and Axey don’t add anything to the story but Moffatt’s love of jamming in more STUFF, and the result is noise and confusion and people asking each other Wait, what was that guy doing?, I missed that bit. The hallmark of his scripts are people having to ask each other the mechanics of what at bottom not be a complex bit of storytelling. To some extent, this might be needed, if he’s also going to put real clues in there. Otherwise, the real clues will stick out like a sore thumb. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/51 "2015-09-21T01:40:28Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > It was made clear last year that she teleported instead of died, right? Did they directly mention that fact in this episode? [Quote=Missy] Cutting to the chase: Not dead. Big surprise. Never mind. [/QUOTE] So she _may_ have teleported instead of dying, but it is at least supposed to have been interpreted _in universe_ as a disintegration, at least by the humans, otherwise her still-alive-ness wouldn’t be a “big surprise”. It was later noted by Clara that the Doctor sent her his will earlier, so _he_ must have known, or hoped, that she was still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/52 "2015-09-21T02:18:50Z")
The colors of getting zapped and teleporting were different. If I remember correctly, getting shot by the Cybermen was red, and teleporting was green. When Missy got “shot” she glowed green. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/53 "2015-09-21T02:42:47Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > The colors of getting zapped and teleporting were different. If I remember correctly, getting shot by the Cybermen was red, and teleporting was green. When Missy got “shot” she glowed green. [Blue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxCn0Y8TXEs&feature=youtu.be&t=31s), it seems. Nevertheless, whether there is some viewer-visible hint of what happened or not, the episode establishes that Clara, at least, did not notice one. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/54 "2015-09-21T03:36:33Z")
The short [Prologue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-fFyrxbSes) to the episode. Moffatt, why must you taunt me thus, serving up noisy gimmicks and pointless characters in the episode but hiding scenes like this? This was much better than much of what you served up in the episode, just a great character scene with some cracking acting and great dialogue, and it set the scene wonderfully. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/55 "2015-09-21T04:25:02Z")
Why would genocide even apply to the daleks? They are an engineered species of killer cyborgs, as the episode last season showed us they literally have no free will when their shell is functioning as it constantly uses electronic mind control and drugs to make them murderous. They have been genetically engineered to be impossible to survive without the shell, they can’t reproduce, they don’t have parents or kids or families or even friends. They have no free thought or will, all controlled by the shell. They are basically mind controlled by the shell. Saying that destroying a bunch of dalek embryos before they have even been gestated is genocide, well then John Conner blowing up a factory making Terminators is also genocide. The term loses all meaning. Doctor#4 fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_D\_Adamo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@John\_D\_Adamo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_D_Adamo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/56 "2015-09-21T05:13:45Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > The short [Prologue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-fFyrxbSes) to the episode. Moffatt, why must you taunt me thus, serving up noisy gimmicks and pointless characters in the episode but hiding scenes like this? This was much better than much of what you served up in the episode, just a great character scene with some cracking acting and great dialogue, and it set the scene wonderfully. Moffat is at his best in shorter bursts of fast paced action and dialogue. His [Night of the Doctor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U3jrS-uhuo)starring Paul McGann was one of my favorites. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/57 "2015-09-21T05:35:06Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > [Blue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxCn0Y8TXEs&feature=youtu.be&t=31s), it seems. Oops. Thanks for catching that. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, whether there is some viewer-visible hint of what happened or not, the episode establishes that Clara, at least, did not notice one. Yeah. It’s obvious that the Doctor saw what happened, but apparently Clara didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/58 "2015-09-21T05:38:45Z")
> [@John\_D\_Adamo](#): > > Moffat is at his best in shorter bursts of fast paced action and dialogue. His [Night of the Doctor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U3jrS-uhuo)starring Paul McGann was one of my favorites. Agree totally; despite what Moffatt thinks, his forte is not the season-long arcs, he works to his strengths with single episode stories. his best work was when Davies was showrunner and he was turning out stuff like _The Girl In The Fireplace_ and _Blink_. And yeah, the McGann story was excellent, and that prologue was similar; Capaldi was far better when he was resigned and subdued, not when he was shouting rubbish and shredding on a tank. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/59 "2015-09-21T15:27:23Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Yeah. It’s obvious that the Doctor saw what happened, but apparently Clara didn’t. I prefer to think that she _was_ disintegrated, and the Doctor was just, “yeah, that never sticks”. Hell, he personally cremated one of her previous bodies, and he came back, and the Daleks cremated him in that horrible made-for-TV movie, and he came back. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/60 "2015-09-21T19:07:04Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Why would genocide even apply to the daleks? > > They are an engineered species of killer cyborgs, as the episode last season showed us they literally have no free will when their shell is functioning as it constantly uses electronic mind control and drugs to make them murderous. They have been genetically engineered to be impossible to survive without the shell, they can’t reproduce, they don’t have parents or kids or families or even friends. They have no free thought or will, all controlled by the shell. They are basically mind controlled by the shell. I’m not sure how that makes it “not genocide.” It’s _justifiable_ genocide, which is not a term you come across to often, but the Daleks are a distinct species, and the term for deliberately wiping out an entire distinct species is “genocide.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=4)