# Doctor Who Series 9 discussion (spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754 "2015-09-19T11:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/781 "2015-12-28T15:28:47Z")
Could someone recap the last few lines of this episode? Someone was talking to me so I didn’t catch it. All I know is River was distraught, the Doctor said something to her, and then she looked relieved. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/782 "2015-12-28T15:57:49Z")
The transcript isn’t up yet, and I can’t recall the conversation, so I’m no damn use today ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/783 "2015-12-28T16:19:42Z")
So when River met Eleven (Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead) and she was going on how he wasn’t really “the doctor” she knew and respected, she was referring to Thirteen? ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/784 "2015-12-28T16:26:47Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > So when River met Eleven (Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead) and she was going on how he wasn’t really “the doctor” she knew and respected, she was referring to Thirteen? Sorry, should be 10 and 12. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/785 "2015-12-28T16:39:36Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Could someone recap the last few lines of this episode? Someone was talking to me so I didn’t catch it. All I know is River was distraught, the Doctor said something to her, and then she looked relieved. from the transcript > [@](#): > > (The Doctor has swapped his burgundy velvet jacket for a black suit and tie, and is carrying a gift.) > RIVER: Now that, my dear, is a suit. > DOCTOR: Happy Christmas. > RIVER: Really? I don’t think you’ve ever given me a present before. > (She opens the box to reveal the sonic screwdriver she had in the Library.) > RIVER: Oh, it’s a sonic screwdriver! How lovely! > DOCTOR: When I saw the sonic trowel, I thought it was just embarrassing, but, look. > (He demonstrates the screwdriver.) > RIVER: Oh, thank you. > (And kisses the Doctor on both cheeks.) > DOCTOR: You look, er, amazing. > RIVER: Doctor, you have no idea whether I look amazing or not. > DOCTOR: Well, you’ve moved your hair about, haven’t you? > RIVER: Well done. It’s very sweet of you to try. > DOCTOR: So what do you think? The Singing Towers. > (River gazes at the pillars with the sun setting behind them.) > RIVER: Oh. The music. Listen to it. Are you crying? > DOCTOR: No. Just the wind. > RIVER: Nothing’s ever just the wind. > DOCTOR: No? It blows through the cave system and harmonises with the crystal layer. > RIVER: Why are you sad? > DOCTOR: Why are you sad? > RIVER: I told you, my diary’s nearly full. I worry. > DOCTOR: Please don’t. > RIVER: There are stories about us, you know. > DOCTOR: Oh, I dread to think. > RIVER: I look them up sometimes. > DOCTOR: You really shouldn’t do that. > RIVER: Some of them suggest that the very last night we spend together is at the Singing Towers of Darillium. That wouldn’t be true, would it? > DOCTOR: Spoilers. > RIVER: Oh. Well, that would explain why you kept cancelling coming here. Do you remember that time > DOCTOR: River, stop. > RIVER: When there were two of you > DOCTOR: Don’t. > RIVER: Because I want you to know that if this is the last night, I expect you to find a way round it. > DOCTOR: Not everything can be avoided. Not forever. > RIVER: But you’re you. There’s always a loophole. You wait until the last minute and then you spring it on me. > DOCTOR: Every night is the last night for something. Every Christmas is the last Christmas > But you will. You’ll wait until I’ve given up hope. All will be lost, and you’ll do that smug little smile and then you’ll save the day. You always do. > DOCTOR: No, I don’t. Not always. Times end, River, because they have to. Because there’s no such thing as happy ever after. It’s just a lie we tell ourselves because the truth is so hard. > RIVER: No, Doctor, you’re wrong. Happy ever after doesn’t mean forever. It just means time. A little time. But that’s not the sort of thing you could ever understand, is it? > DOCTOR: Mmm. What do you think of the towers? > RIVER: I love them. > DOCTOR: Then why are you ignoring them? > RIVER: They’re ignoring me. But then you can’t expect a monolith to love you back. > DOCTOR: No, you can’t. They’ve been there for millions of years, through storms and floods and wars and time. Nobody really understands where the music comes from. It’s probably something to do with the precise positions, the distance between both towers. Even the locals aren’t sure. All anyone will ever tell you is that when the wind stands fair and the night is perfect, when you least expect it but always when you need it the most there is a song. > RIVER: So, assuming tonight is all we have left. > DOCTOR: I didn’t say that. > RIVER: How long is a night on Darillium? > DOCTOR: Twenty four years. > RIVER: (nearly laughing and crying at the same time) I hate you. > DOCTOR: No, you don’t. > (They gaze into each others eyes.) > > And they both lived happily ever after … > And they both lived happily > happily ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/786 "2015-12-28T16:40:52Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > So when River met Eleven (Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead) and she was going on how he wasn’t really “the doctor” she knew and respected, she was referring to Thirteen? > [@holmes](#): > > Sorry, should be 10 and 12. This might help [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/t-wgLFj6bbI/maxresdefault.jpg "Doctor Who: River Song's Death - 2015 Version (HD)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-wgLFj6bbI) ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/787 "2015-12-28T18:22:30Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > So when River met Eleven (Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead) and she was going on how he wasn’t really “the doctor” she knew and respected, she was referring to Thirteen? > [@holmes](#): > > Sorry, should be 10 and 12. Obviously, you need a bigger flowchart. I liked it. I thought it was charming. But then, I usually mostly like River, so it isn’t really surprising that I’d like seeing her again and I thought Kingston & Capaldi played off each other really, really well. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/788 "2015-12-29T06:02:42Z")
So, I’m watching the Christmas special, yeah I just got around to it [big whoop wanna fight about it?,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJimiVFCjJ0) and I got to 55 min and 30 secs in when River realized the oldy but goody was The Doctor and then my heart cried. And then my eyes were all like, “what?, what’s going on now?, oh shit we’re wetting ourselves, ok.” And then my brain was all, “what the hell are you two talking about?” and then I realized, “what?, fuck balls I should finish the episode.”, but then I decided to post this emotional roller coaster first. God damn, feelings were had all around. Especially by Mary. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/789 "2015-12-30T19:32:28Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > So is flat-out shooting that Time Lord general type just one of those ‘bad things’ the Doctor did out of his desire to save/avenge Clara? Because that was a pretty big one, to me, to the point that I spent some part of the episode wondering wether it would be undone, somehow. It certainly is a turning point for the character, no? Yep, Doctor of War doing bad shit beyond his normal code. > [@](#): > > And poor Ashildr. Spending a few billion years punching yourself out of a diamond prison must seem like a weekend out in the countryside with your well-meaning, but slightly dull relatives compared to her suffering. I mean, to be stuck with eighties fashion for half of eternity… (Seriously, what’s up with that look? She didn’t have a nose piercing last time we saw her, did she? And then the lipstick, big hair, leather jacket… Seems way too deliberate to just be a random choice, but I can’t for the life of me figure out what it might mean.) Nose piercings and leather jackets are all the rage now. The hair didn’t scream 80’s to me. Why is she stuck with 2015 fashion? > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I liked it a great deal, but then I mostly can’t stand River. > > River has always been annoying when she’s been allowed to out-Doctor the Doctor. (“Spoilers, sweetie.” Ugh.) But for most of the latest Christmas episode she’s enjoyable clueless, and she also makes some interesting observations about the lopsided-sided nature of their relationship that deflates the overblown implications of her prior appearances. What bugged me was she was entirely too clueless, even in the face of him saying “I’m The Doctor” to her directly. Yeah, it’s funny to see her the one on the short step, but it didn’t feel right. Also wondering how she qualified for that spaceliner of evil. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/790 "2015-12-30T20:18:19Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Also wondering how she qualified for that spaceliner of evil. Convicted of murder should do that. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/791 "2015-12-30T20:33:41Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Convicted of murder should do that. She “killed” the Doctor. Didn’t those time-travel tiny guys say she was the worst war criminal ever? ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/792 "2015-12-30T20:57:57Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > She “killed” the Doctor. Didn’t those time-travel tiny guys say she was the worst war criminal ever? Yes. The Tesselecta. But after Asylum of the Daleks, when Eleven took a page out of Oswin’s playbook and went around wiping out all evidence of The Doctor from every database ever, (which makes me wonder how UNIT knew to find him at the Pond’s house in Power of Three) River was acquitted because the man she was supposed to have murdered never existed. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/793 "2016-01-03T22:41:26Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Yep, Doctor of War doing bad shit beyond his normal code. I rewatched _Hell Bent_ before watching the Christmas special, and liked it a great deal more. I guess some things just need time to be processed… As for the special itself, I think it was a fine sendoff for River, if maybe a bit forced at times. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/794 "2016-01-09T03:10:52Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Convicted of murder should do that. Didn’t they say something about multiple indiscriminate murders? Murdering the Doctor is still only killing one person. She didn’t even kill Rory, and everybody kills Rory. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/795 "2016-01-09T06:58:57Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Didn’t they say something about multiple indiscriminate murders? Murdering the Doctor is still only killing one person. She didn’t even kill Rory, and everybody kills Rory. How many Angels did she help send into that rift? ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/796 "2016-01-09T08:00:11Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Didn’t they say something about multiple indiscriminate murders? Murdering the Doctor is still only killing one person. She didn’t even kill Rory, and everybody kills Rory. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > How many Angels did she help send into that rift? The Tesselecta never said “multiple murders”. Just being “the woman who killed the Doctor” was enough for them to grant her the title of “worst”. Eta: here’s the transcript for that episode: [http://www.chakoteya.net/doctorwho/32-8.htm](http://www.chakoteya.net/doctorwho/32-8.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/797 "2016-01-23T16:53:10Z")
Not sure if this should be in a new thread, but [Steven Moffat is stepping down as show runner after season 10](http://tvline.com/2016/01/22/doctor-who-steven-moffat-leaving-season-10/) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/798 "2016-01-23T18:34:15Z")
> [@Mars\_Horizon](#): > > Not sure if this should be in a new thread, but [Steven Moffat is stepping down as show runner after season 10](http://tvline.com/2016/01/22/doctor-who-steven-moffat-leaving-season-10/) And at least as important, Series 10 will not air until 2017. The only thing we’re getting in 2016 is the Christmas special. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/799 "2016-01-23T19:25:10Z")
> [@Mars\_Horizon](#): > > Not sure if this should be in a new thread, but [Steven Moffat is stepping down as show runner after season 10](http://tvline.com/2016/01/22/doctor-who-steven-moffat-leaving-season-10/) That’s a shame. I hope he’ll still write the occasional episode for the show. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754/800 "2016-01-23T20:27:49Z")
> [@Mars\_Horizon](#): > > Not sure if this should be in a new thread, but [Steven Moffat is stepping down as show runner after season 10](http://tvline.com/2016/01/22/doctor-who-steven-moffat-leaving-season-10/) I think that’s good for the direction of the show. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doctor-who-series-9-discussion-spoilers-as-it-airs/731754.md?page=41)